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Firearms rumors and anecdotal evidence (no dox.)

Discussion in 'GoldBase' started by 33755, Mar 13, 2009.

  1. 33755 Member

    Firearms rumors and anecdotal evidence (no dox.)

    Andre Taboyayan affadavit is from before the ban (1994).
    Affidavit of Andre Tabayoyon - 5 Mar 1994

    Ban in 2004/5. Article about the Calif ban by the Governator describes the range of the shot (2000 meters) and the size of the gun (5.5 feet long). Says it makes more impact than a .44 magnum at close range.
    Big Rifle A Terrorist Tool? - CBS News

    That would be Artur Solomonyan.
    Scientology and religious workers visas, by Jeff Jacobsen
  2. 33755 Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Scarey shit re-posted in this thread from Razor Wire at Gold Base - Page 6 - Why We Protest | Activism Forum

    edit: source link: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/browse_thread/thread/e5a9cb10492747b8?pli=1
  3. anoninoob Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    A SWAT team dropped above and behind the Nest could neutralize it quite easily. It's only a tactical nuisance due to this fact. Heck, just dropping smoke in front of the Nest would render it useless. Even hand held mirrors shined at it could check a sniper.
  4. Anon-007 Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    A small tactical nuke would be easier.

    Plus there is the added bonus of collateral damage taking out Gold into the bargain, and rendering Davey's stocks of bullion radioactive (a la Goldfinger)
  5. Anonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    this is very entertaining...
  6. Oswald2001 Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Elron bought some rusting tub and sailed all over creation in order to stay out of US jurisdiction for a long time.

    He had delusions of being followed by the FBI and 'communists' many years before anyone knew...or cared...who he was.

    He ended his miserable days pumped full of psych drugs as a paranoid flight case from the IRS and other Federal/State agencies.

    He exhibited siege mentality right to the end.

    Even his minions had him burned to ashes I-M-M-E-D-I-A-T-E-L-Y and then thrown to the bottom of the ocean...without benefit of an autopsy.

    Talk about your basic siege mentalily....

    I know of no other 'church' that has a snipers nest. If that isn't an indication of siege mentality, I don't know what is.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    BTW, HK-91's became 'illegal' "assault rifles" decades before .50 cal rifles were outlawed by the California Fuhrer.

    If they had 91's, a .50 or two would really be no big deal.
  7. azonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    This is interesting...edited a little out, but here's the link

    Scientology --- Weapons and road route at Golden Era Studios

    I live in San Jacinto, CA, about a two minute drive from the Golden Era Studios ...

    I have seen things in this area which concern me greatly.

    ...I had a breakdown near their compound, and when I asked to use their phone, they took me to the guardhouse at the main gate.

    I found it interesting that this small (about the size of an old Fotomat) building contained no less than 4 Remington Model 870 pump action shotguns, and 4 M-16A1 rifles. (NOT civilian- type AR-15 semi-auto, but M16A1s with full-auto selectors, I am a firearms dealer and part-time gun nut, I know what they look like!). Each guard also carried his own high-capacity 9mm pistol. I used to work at San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station, and these guys were better armed than the guards there!

    I also witnessed an incident which I related to the police, but about which nothing was done. I was driving past the place late one night, when I saw a young man in one of their blue jump suits (means you've done something wrong, and are on punishment detail).

    He was running down the street, and I was going to pull over to see if he needed help, when I saw security approaching on their dirt-bikes (they ride Honda off-road motorcycles around the compound). Not wishing to confront guys I knew were armed, I continued on. It was then that I saw the other security officers on foot, with dogs, looking for this poor guy.

    The cops I told said they would check it out, but I never heard anything again about it.

    I have also had the opportunity to speak with some of our local laborers about the recent construction of the new "sound stage" and the studio grounds. They told me that the walls of the building are approx. 2.5' reinforced concrete, backed by a wall of what they described as "telephone poles".

    I had seen these poles during construction, and wondered why they were there. The building is made to look like a castle, with ramparts, crenellations, and a three or four story turret.

    The area out to about 100 yards is completely cleared of all vegetation, and the "sound-stage" is surrounded by a ditch, approachable by car only across a bridge that the $cientologists built. I wish you could see this place, it's amazing. They could withstand anything short of the Army there, and probably a small unit of that, as well.

    Now they are campaigning to have the route for State Highway 79 moved so that it bypasses the current road, which they own. They swear that they will not close down what would then be a totally private road, but after the highway is moved, they are no longer contractually bound to keep it open, so why would they. If it were closed, no one would be able to see anything going on in there, as the backside is a large hill, and the front is blocked by a large stand of trees. So far, the locals have managed to stave off the proposed change, but how long they can hold out is anybodys' guess.

    Anyway, I thought you might like to know about $cientology in my town, and what they are up to, Signed: Concerned in San Jacinto (I wont give my name, as we know what they do to people they feel are "enemies"!

    **********
    tl;dr
    • Guardshack contained no less than 4 Remington Model 870 pump action shotguns, and 4 M-16A1 rifles.
    • Better armed than guards at San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station.
    • Each guard also carried his own high-capacity 9mm pistol.
    • Sound stage and studio grounds were designed to withstand anything short of the Army there, and probably a small unit of that, as well.
    • Incidents reported to police are never heard about again...

    Coincidence? Rational? Logical?
  8. TinyDancer Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Gee. I was looking for corroboration about the guns and only found this, first up:
    Posted by Roan. Operation Clambake Message Board :: View topic - A Day at Int. Base... gone awry!
  9. azonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Just going with the guns and zealots angles...

    tl;dr
    • cabinets full of guns: uzis, R-18's, mini 14's, rifles, hand guns, for SECURITY
    • in a standoff they would respond with guns, definately
    • survivalist zealots with big underground tanks of gasoline, generators, fallout areas, at GOLD BASE...

    nothing to see here...just move along

    Jesse Prince Tape Four

    I know David Miscavige has at least 3 or 4 gun cabinets full of all different kind of rifles, hand guns, this type of thing.

    Norman Starkey, the same, he even has an elephant gun there, that just knocks you away.

    L. Ron Hubbard was fascinated with guns.

    Richard Aznaran, his first introduction to doing something with L. Ron Hubbard that I know of, besides being his personal secretary, was to be his gun IC. This was to take the extensive amount of guns he has, which I would say would be over 40, 50 guns and rifles, and make sure that they're cleaned, buy new ones.

    L: Were there any military weapons?
    J: Yeah. [BOTH TALKING AT ONCE] R-18s, mini-14's.
    L: Uzi's, anything like automatic or semi-automatic illegal guns.
    J: All of them were semi-automatic that I knew of. I didn't know of any fully-automatic weapons. The Uzi's, yep.

    L: Why did they say they had all these guns? Did they ever make a comment why they had so many guns?
    J: For security.
    ....The best state-of-the-art guns. It was security purposes in case anything ever happened, they felt protected, because they had their arms, their guns. It was definitely a personal thing.
    L: Do you think if the government was going to go in and arrest David Miscagive and these top people that they would possibly respond?
    J: In a standoff? Yes.
    L: In a standoff. So they would respond with guns?
    J: Yes.

    L: Do they keep guns on the ship of the Flag land base?
    J: Yep.
    L: Other than in the security office?
    J: I know normally the executives all have guns.
    L: All of the senior executives, in their rooms?
    J: Yep.
    L: Would these senior executives, if they were challenged - What would cause Scientology to respond in a - from your being inside Scientology, what outside threat would throw them into a violent reaction, if that could happen? What do you think would do that?
    J: Like if people in Army uniforms or something like that showed up and stormed the gates or something like that.
    L: Do you think they would go for their guns?
    J: Yes. I think there would be a standoff.


    J: They are bound to protect L. Ron Hubbard's interests above their own life. So, yeah, I think you have the zealots, sure.
    ...at the Gold Land Base they have a whole survivalist thing going on where there was food. Canned food was kept in a secret area at the Gold Land Base. Graham crackers, canned meat, gasoline, spare gasoline. Big underground tanks of gasoline. Generators, fallout areas, where people could be at. Yeah.
  10. XenuLovesU Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    More. Words. On. The. Internet.

    So, let's imagine you're a paranoid cult, armed-to-the-teeth with hugely illegal full auto M16A1's in your guard shack.

    Some unknown dude comes up and asks to use your phone. Do you:

    1. Invite him into your guard shack to get a nice long look at your illegal weapons cache?

    or

    2. Offer to call him a tow truck without letting him see the automatic weapons?
  11. Anonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Anyone can play that game:

    <FICTION>

    I took part in the Anonymous protest in Los Angeles back in May. This was my third protest in as many months and I'd become fairly well known to a few of the other folks there.

    After this protest, one of them said they were going to grab dinner and then have a little celebratory party at a hotel in West Hollywood afterward and invited me to come along.

    A half-dozen of us had dinner at this little Greek place on Santa Monica Blvd., then went to a small hotel called Le Reve after picking up some beer and booze at a supermarket nearby.

    After about an hour of drinking and laughing it up, we were pretty buzzed. Someone brought up the topic of Scientology and guns, wondering if they'd pull a Waco out at their Hemet compound, or if one would go nuts and shoot a protester.

    Another one of the Anons said, "Fuck them. We're ready." and pulled open the closet door. It fucking blew my mind.

    First, let me say I have a lot of experience with firearms. I was an MP in the Marine Corps for ten years, and a peace officer for a large CA department for eight more. I also hold an FFL (license to sell firearms).

    In the closet were six Ruger Mini-14's. Not illegal (if not modified) in CA, but these all had been converted with folding-stocks and had 30 round magazines (both completely illegal modifications). There were also six sets of body armor and a large ammo box with 1,000 rounds of .223 ammunition.

    I had no idea why they were showing me this shit. I think they were just too drunk to have any good judgment left. I hightailed it out of there. I'm not going to have anything more to do with these dangerous kooks.


    </FICTION>

    What level of proof would you be demanding if someone posted that?
  12. Anonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    You can get legal M-16's that are semi-auto fire. The thing is that it is real simple to make them fully auto.
  13. Anonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    ^^^
    We are anonymous. I constantly read here that no one speaks for another...so one individual's bad judgment (and fiction, as you pointed out...I remember a similar "hilarious" "rape" story...hahaha) doesn't represent Anonymous...

    Scientology IS organized...very...all of this survivalist, paranoid zeal comes right from the top...and the stories of the exes (should you choose to believe them) represent part of their belief system.

    How does that even compare to what you posted...


    I do admit to personal bias against organized COS, that is, after all, why I am here.
    I am not looking to save or defend the cult, but rather, explore any and every means to take it down

    That said...regarding level of proof..

    Identification, first, then motivation.
    Go from there.
    What level of proof do you require?

    I noticed you ignored this part

    I find it credible
    The anonymous one you posted, didn't appear verifiable in any way
  14. Anonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Sweetie, none of this is proof. We're just gathering leads. Before anyone would act on this information, such as a reporter, for instance, they would need to track down the witness and get a statement.

    All we are doing is gathering leads. Got it?
  15. Anonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Does anyone know if it is illegal for them to stockpile weapons? There are lots of people and groups all across America with their own personal armory. If I was to go there, I would assume that they have weapons just based on their ambitious security systems.
  16. Anonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Front sight firearms training institute is advertising again as I type this.
    Wasn't it reveled that it was scientology connected ?

    REMOVED GOOGLEAD


    Is this where the snipers and security got their training ?
  17. Anonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post


    Scientology and Front Sight Firearms, Scientology is armed and dangerous

    Diana Mertz Hsieh: Front Sight, Ignatius Piazza, and Scientology?


    Also I apologize for putting the ad ling instead of screen cap, Mods please correct this for me and also this seems to have been a case that Arnie knows something about PA Arnie.
  18. Anonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Scientology and Front Sight Firearms, Scientology is armed and dangerous

    Scientology's RPF ( Prison Camps ) by Professor Stephen Kent

    SCIENTOLOGY IS ARMED AND DANGEROUS

    28. In 1991 I had to prepare the base so that it could be defended against the possibility of being taken over by the authorities in a time of crisis. There are approx. 750 people at the base. I was in charge of a project designing the base security system, the perimeter fence, the ultra razor barriers, the lighting of the perimeter fence, the electronic monitors, the concealed microphones, the ground sensors, the motion sensors and hidden cameras which were installed and all over the area -- even outside the base.

    29. Church monies were used to purchase semi-automatic assault rifles (HK 91 assault rifles capable of firing 300-350 rounds of ammunition a minute, 45 caliber pistols, .380 automatic weapons and twelve gauge shotguns were stockpiled. These weapons were not registered. Church monies were also used to buy the ammunition.

    30. Church monies were also used to purchase a large amount of pounds of gunpowder for the construction of various types of explosive devices to be used in the defense of the base."
  19. Skeptic1337 Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    I know you guys are doing research on this and all that.

    You might want to start with "is it legal to have weapons on private property if licensed." Then go on to bigger questions of what kind of guns and are you allowed to have observation posts on your property.

    That way you don't waste your time finding out that yes they do they have guns but it's perfectly legal.

    Unless you're going after the ZOMG guns! angle.

    Any ways carry on.
  20. Anonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    http://www.lermanet.com/cos/1stprince.htm - Jesse Prince Affidavit

    human rights abuses in Scientology; hrabuse2.htm - Janice Hayward

    human rights abuses in Scientology; hrabuse2.htm
  21. Oswald2001 Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post


    You can find plenty of info on the internet or from any number of publications.

    It's not hard to train.

    Basically, it's a matter of practice.

    New guys spend lots of time with bolt action or semi-auto .22's and learn basic marksmanship...on the cheap.

    Then move up to the larger calibers.

    It's not magic.

    The best snipers are like the best of anything. It takes practice, practice, practice.


    You might be surprised how good you could get after firing 10,000-20,000 rounds in disciplined practice.
  22. Anonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    It sure seemed important enough for Bacca to question Tommy Davis about it.
  23. Skeptic1337 Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Right...

    Let's say you cut through all the bullshit and find out yes they do have guns and as per TD yes there is an observation post.

    Then what?
  24. TinyDancer Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    As far as I'm concerned, this is digging up corroboration of Andre Tabayoyon's evidence. And Nathan obviously sees that as news - he'll be interviewing Tabayoyon this week, I believe.
  25. eddieVroom Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Then, hopefully, Homeland Security, BATF, FBI -- someone -- will get their arms twisted until they get off their collective ass, do their jobs and INVESTIGATE. Finally.
  26. SouthSideAnon Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    I was actually invisioning him in desert Camo, but much more like Bill Murray in Caddy Shack when he's trying to kill the vermits. Talking to himself the whole shabang! LULZ
  27. eddieVroom Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    The best proposal I could make at this time is to see how Baca's followup piece on this plays out, and do what we can to get Riverside County residents behind demands for a formal investigation. The calls would have to come from Gold's neighbors to carry weight, IMO.

    If Baca truly hits paydirt on this, it should be fairly trivial to motivate the citizens.
  28. Anonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Almost every gun made is legal in California., even fully automatic weapons. Granted if you want to have fully auto weapons you can be rest assured that you will be checked out thoroughly. There is a special category for gun collectors to own such weapons. If you have ever watched an episode of Mythbusters (shot in California) they shoot full auto weapons on that show a lot.
  29. eddieVroom Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    That said, the Mythbusters crew is likely neither stockpiling them, nor in a paramilitary mindset. Like living in uniforms or "marching" (quoting TD) up a hill to maintain an "observation post" and the like.
  30. LocalSP Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    From some of the research I have done it seems that being in the film business makes it easier to obtain full auto weapons. Say don't the scilons have a movie production studio?
  31. eddieVroom Member

    re: &quot;Camouflaged&quot; Observation Post

    OH SHI-...

    frankenstein_villagers.jpg

    lol
  32. Buttons Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    It seems to me that the simplest benefit of proving that they have guns, is just the questions that it might raise with the general public. Why does a church feel that they require this level of protection? It just might lead the curious to do a google search and end up learning alot more.

    If any government agency decides to do an investigation, that would just be lagniappe.
  33. Anonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Whew. You really need to go have a read of weapons laws in CA.

    There are plenty of specified make/models of guns that are illegal, as well as prohibitions against firearms that have certain characteristics.

    - AR-15, AK, HK 91... (and others) or derivatives? Illegal unless registered prior to ban.

    - Rifle with centerfire cartridge with detachable magazine and any of these?

    Folding or collapsible stock
    Thumb hole stock
    Pistol grip
    Forward grip
    Flash suppressor
    Grenade or flare launcher
    Magazine with greater than 10 round capacity

    Illegal

    The average Joe isn't going to have an FFL, and there are strict controls on what you can do in CA even with an FFL. Having an FFL, for instance, wouldn't allow you to stock your guard shack with M16's.

    http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf


    -
  34. anon111265 Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Asking for dox or evidence isnt discouraging people, its called remaining objective.

    Healthy skepticism is what stops anonymous from being just another tinfoil conspiracy theorist group

    There are so many unverifiable, conflicting reports of what is supposedly going on at gold, (what exactly are they supposed to have? AR-15s? shotguns? uzis? '45 pistols? etc etc etc) that sifting the truth from the bollocks is difficult, especially when so many of these reports are either hearsay or coming from (possibly) disgruntled exes.

    There is just zero hard evidence here, no photos, no video, no police reports nothing.

    It might very well be the opinion of many people that gold base is armed (personally I think its probable) but opinions and speculation and hearsay mean exactly jack shit, so until anyone has some actual evidence to post here, lets not get too worked up about it ok?
  35. anonspilz Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post


    Some of the conversations on this board quickly drift into fantasy. He's an important devil's advocate
  36. Anonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Actually tin foil and fantasy is infractable/bannable in serious threads here. Report that shit. We don't want it. If you want to post stupid posts, do that in YSOSRS and Thunderdome.
  37. TinyDancer Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    To my mind, it's the fact that there are heavily armed guards AND numbers of people reporting that they were being held captive and "recovered" after trying to escape that I think warrants the attention of the Sheriff and the DA. I'd like to see them put their heads together and work out a strategy for dealing with that situation.
  38. azonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    I was wondering who he was interviewing...that should be interesting

    I <3 Nathan Baca...
  39. XenuLovesU Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    This is sorta one of the reasons this thread gives me a headache.

    People have been quoting the idea that there are heavily armed guards / assault weapons / whatever like it's a fact.

    Right now, that's based almost entirely on a couple of affidavits, by Prince and Tabayoyon, that were both part of the Scientology vs. Fishman and Geertz case. Essentially -- a couple of data points. I'd count it more like 1.5 data points. With no evidence whatsoever to back up their words.

    The other stories on the Internet aren't worth squat. Four shotguns, four full-auto M16's and 9mm sidearms in the phone booth sized guardhouse? Riiiiight. So, let's see... so far there are HK 91s, M16s, .45 handguns, 9mm handguns, .380 handguns and 870 Remington shotguns... and whatever the freaking "sniper" is supposed to have. Not much for standardizing their equipment, I guess.

    Putting something in an affidavit doesn't make it a fact. The affidavits are interesting, but I'd have been a hell of a lot more impressed (and less incredulous) if Prince or Tabayoyon had filed a police report or gone to the feds. Maybe they did? If so, I haven't heard a peep about it from them, or anyone else. Did they just file these affidavits in support of these defendants and that was it?

    I just think it's a real exercise in futility to take these unsubstantiated reports and turn that into wild speculation about security at Gold Base. I mean -- c'mon... people here have brought up Claymores, Taser area denial systems... sonic weapons... .50 cal sniper rifles... blah, blah, blah. That's not "doing research." That's a nice start for a crappy pulp-fiction novel.

    There could be some meat on these bones, but how about we dig up some facts before running amok with this topic?

    - Where is Andre Tabayoyon? Seems Natahan Baca suggested Andre might be one of his interviewees. That would be a good start. Can't he come here and discuss these topics? Provide insight? Tell us if he's gone to law enforcement on his own?

    - Annelesie Lilje (the person who posted the hang glider story) is a pretty easy Google target. I've sent email to a couple of the addresses I found for Annelesie asking if she'd share any additional details. No response. If you find the story credible, poke around some more and see if you can find her.
  40. Suzette Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Well, it is relatively easy and legal to get guns. Not absolutely any gun, but plenty enough gun to blow people to smithereens. So unsubstantiated or not, it's not outrageous. In fact, given all the crazy knife fences and stuff, I'd be shocked if they didn't have a whole bunch of guns. If they have any brains at all, they wouldn't bother trying to get anything illegal. They certainly don't need anything illegal to inflict a lot of damage.

    I'm not sure what can be done about it. Like I say, I bet it's all legal. Public opinion is one thing, but who can look at those fences and not get creeped out? I'm not sure what it would take to impress people, and if affidavits+killer fence aren't convincing enough for someone, then you aren't likely to get much better evidence than people who were in and saw the weapons and are now out.

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