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Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

Discussion in 'Think Tank' started by Theta Omega, Apr 8, 2008.

  1. taurelilomea Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    Did he say why it wouldn't? We have precedent, after all.
  2. Theta Omega Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    He thinks the Scitols will just lie; of course, if they do that the ICO will totally own them.

    Oh oh oh what's this?

    Ever been audited? Time to file some requests, ex-scn.

    Oh oh oh oh but there's moar that! Were you there? then you get to make a DPA request too!

    The more requests, the more enturbulation. The more requests declined, the more likely the ICO will do a full audit of them. This involves DPR people going to their offices, their orgs, their places of business and raiding them with cops in tow. I have seen DPR raids. They are not happy fun times. They involve cops banging on the door at unexpected moments. I very much want this to happen to the CoS. Don't you?
  3. taurelilomea Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    THIS. THIS. THIIIIIIIS.
    If they've already got your name, or your face, or your address, then what'll you lose? Nothing. What'll you gain? I government investigation.
  4. bikerchick Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    I'm an ex scion and have thought about this a lot in the past. I especially want my PC folder (pre-clear folder) containing all the info from all the auditing I've had + dates and times of all the "assists" I've had. That info would help me loads with the book I'm writing as my memories from that place are a bit fudged.
    Only problem is, I'm know they wouldn't give the information I want. Having worked there, I know they don't care for "wog-world" laws. They'll get the letter, laugh and respond with minimal information. They'll only reply with copies of the harmless stuff like my past addresses. Even though I know they have at least 3 different folders packed with info on me, and they would never destroy it. They would pretend they have. Who's going to stop them? So it's illegal, they'd go as far as taking my folders to one of their homes and hiding them in an underwear drawer if they thought a DPA official was going to search their office (which they won't). In fact, they would even go against LRH policy and burn the files if there was a chance the stuff would be found.
    Basically, the org will do their usual trick of pretending to be adhering to laws, and cover up all evidence of everything else.
    I don't think I'll bother even trying, it would be a waste of £10. Unless someone can convince me that I have a good chance of getting copies of my PC folder, with ALL the loose sheets of paper contained within.
  5. Accelerator Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    You may not have a good chance, but in my view that is precisely why you should make the request. If they try to send you minimal information, you will have a prima facie case against the Church which you can take to the Information Commissioner. The Commissioner has the power to issue enforcement notices, and can apply for search warrants to seek the documents.

    See the following leaflet: http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/docume...ical_application/dp_how_to_complain_final.pdf
  6. Theta Omega Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    Seriously, the ICO needs a win right now. They've had all sorts of bad press lately and this is an easy one for them. Secondly, the DPR does not stop coming, and they have far better lawyers than the CoS, as well as having the police force to essentially do their bidding. If you have good evidence for them holding data on you that they do not turn up in a DSAR, then you have a slam dunk case; the CoS WILL lose (they lost Bonnie's case, too, and she got £55k for her trouble). They simply cannot win. If you have the patience and are willing to testify to the effect that they will do this, and that they have a practice of keeping such data, and using it to harm people, then we have confirmed that the ICO and the DPR WILL back you up.

    This is a right, not even a law, as defined by the DPA, and you can use it. You should use it, because it will work. Seriously, if a few of us make these complaints and they screw us around, the ICO will notice, and make a major raid. A major DPR raid consists of them swooping in mob-handed and taking EVERYTHING that even remotely resembles data. It includes them sending staff into orgs, under force of law, to observe their use of data, for months at a time. The DPR does not screw around.

    Seriously, the upside potential is huge and the downside potential is that they might lie and you get the ICO to take them to court for you. You don't even have to get really involved. And all it costs you is twenty quid. What's not to like?
  7. Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    I will give you the £20 to do this as soon as I get paid - as long as I get a cut of the damages you'll be awarded. You are exactly the type of person that they will trip up over. They will NOT be able to provide you with copies of everything they've got within the 40 day timescale and the DPA WILL press for charges and destroy them.
  8. bikerchick Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    it's tempting, especially for the compensation but i have no proof that they have those files. It's my word against theirs. Even though I have seen my files, and even wrote my name on one of them so they would have the correct spelling.
    Since I moved house I've had no correspondence or phonecalls from them (I moved for that reason).
    They've stopped emailing me too (my email address was passed onto the London Org at some stage and I was getting recruitment emails). Unfortunately I deleted the lot.
  9. spiral Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    there's plenty of other ex-scilons to back you up on the large amounts of data they keep on you, so there's more than your word against theirs; you've got witness statements too.
  10. Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    Exactly. We have hundreds of witness statements saying they WILL have that information and there are videos of scientologists saying to interview panels that they DO save information gathered through auditing. Speak to the information commissioners office and explain your concerns and see how much they will accept "your word against theirs".
  11. Accelerator Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    Interesting....


    (http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/docume...ical_application/dp_how_to_complain_final.pdf

    So you don't even have to have data stored on you by the Scienos to report them to the Information Commissioner, provided there is evidence that there is a significant data protection problem. I say: let's get this evidence together and send it in.
  12. Anonymous21 Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    I think this is a great idea.

    However, there are a number of loopholes in the DPA.. but if the $cifags already have your info then you pretty much have nothing to lose. If your picture has been taken at any protest or you think they have your name etc, then GO FOR IT!

    At worst you spend £10 and get a less than satisfactory response. Some things are just very very hard to prove, but if you have ANYTHING (i.e. a photo of a scientologist taking your photo) then you can use that as proof that they ARE holding data about you.

    Also, in the worst situation you cause them a pain in the ass by making them search through files, pictures etc.

    At the very best, you uncover some juicy info about yourself, or even better - if enough people do it, it may prompt a full investigation into the church
  13. Theta Omega Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    Okay, at this point, I've got my DSAR ready to send off. Who else?

    If anyone's waiting on the 20 quid they need to send it, let me know by PM and I'll paypal you. This will work much better if we hit them with a bunch of requests at once (they're less likely to "forget" how to handle them then.) You can buy me a pint next time I'm in town.
  14. Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    I'm gonna get my photographs tomorrow lunchtime, aiming to get the letters sent tomorrow night, if not tomorrow morning.
  15. Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    The packages are en-route, I repeat, the packages are en-route.

    Letters are sent recorded delivery, including the letter, a £10 postal order each, a passport photograph and an Anonymous sticker.

    Tracking codes: DV005290976GB and DV005290980GB

    Should be in the birds nest on monday morning. From then, the clock starts ticking.

    OSA, we know you're watching. You have until the 12th May to tell me you're not gonna fair game me. You have until the 31st May to provide every ounce of information you have on me and anonymous.
  16. Theta Omega Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    I sent mine on Friday too. They're coming transatlantic, so it'll take a little while. (I'm sending them via an operative in the UK, so tracking numbers will follow when I have them.)

    THE BUNNY IS IN THE HUTCH. OH ME OH MY.
  17. taurelilomea Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    amerifag sez - how do I type tracking code?
    srsly, I have no idea who the UK's tracking service is. :-/
  18. Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    This is good shit. Please keep us updated on it.
  19. MongoLloyd Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    Another thought:

    The EXPORT of personal data from the EU to the USA is BANNED. Can't do it without the persons explicit consent.

    This is why, for instance, your amazon.co.uk account won't work on amazon.com. You have to sign up twice.

    Scientology supposedly sends data on both their own members and critics to the US.

    ....see where I'm going with this?
  20. taurelilomea Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    Could we trigger an investigation in the USA with this? 'Course, it's not likely. BAWW TAX RAEP BAWW and the like. But is it poooossible?
  21. anonhuff Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    Is John Sweeney covered by this? lollll

    edit: also after reading this thread, it sounds like a data request would provide immunization from fair gaming, is there any downside to outing yourself by sending in a request and continuing to peacefully protest? You could send in a request after every protest
  22. pp|JackRyan Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    well, that law has execeptions. e.g. if you had some kind of contract with them, they have the right to have data about you. (what is neccessary for the contract)
    but information beyond that you can force them to delete.

    also keep in mind that justice has not yet recognized that personal rights have to weight more than economic interests of any company. scien... is a company not a church.

    JR
  23. Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    If Scientology follows the law, there is no downside as far as we can tell or that the lass on the advice line could think of. If Scientology follows the law.

    If they break the law again then you'll have to go through at least a little bit of fair gaming. However, they will get absolutely reamed by the information commissioner and will be unable to fair game anyone in the UK or EU ever again since they will be banned from holding any personal data whatsoever.
  24. Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    You know, there's only one way to prove that the C0$ HAS to provide information.

    We need an ex-Sci, with certificates... and if a data request FROM someone involved:

    1) Either WITH that certification ( Which sadly requires the request from an Auditor rank or higher, right? ) , requesting confirmation as they have Interacted / Processed with your personal information, thus legally in the UK should be sworn into obeying the DPA, or

    2) The certificated themselves,

    misses out ANYTHING leading up to that cert, training notes, ect, we can drop that small T-N on them.

    Also, CCTV footage. You can just contact them DPA commissioner to confirm that the CCTV nodea have been certified, and data is being RETAINED in collaboration with the DPA.

    YES. RETAINED. The DPA as far as I recall, also covers the storage of that data, and if you have proof that you have gone past a Scientology site, make a DPA request, and they fail it, then another nice T-N to drop.

    This means that ANYBODY who walks past a C0$ site can technically make a request for release of information, even if they had only been caught on camera for a small time.

    If you have the evidence to back up the capture and failure of safe retention regarding someone's personal information, that's all the Data Protection Commissioner needs.
  25. Theta Omega Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    Yup. However, the DPA doesn't have any force outside the EU, which means that once the data escapes there's not a lot we can do. They admit on their DPR entry that they export data to the USA but they don't say what they do with it there. There are definite grounds for a case here.
  26. Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    The swallow has entered the nest, I repeat, the swallow has entered the nest

    Delivery confirmed:
    http://track.royalmail.com/portal/r...mresultspage&keyname=3A_track&_requestid=8074
    http://track.royalmail.com/portal/r...mresultspage&keyname=3A_track&_requestid=8097

    On Saturday no less. I've also recieved my 3 copies of the letter back and they, along with the receipts of the recorded deliveries and postal orders, are in a very safe place.

    So that means I should have my confirmation that I'm safe from fair game on Saturday 10th at the latest and May 29th for my copies of information.
  27. MongoLloyd Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    No.. it's EU law, so it has to be done in the EU.

    So.. HOMEWORK guys, re: illegal data export.

    1) Talk to ex-scilons, figure out which data is being collected and sent to the US (read: Clearwater or Hemet).. Case files? Info on critics/Protesters?
    2) Read over the laws, pinpoint exactly how this violates the law.
    3) Get affidavits or such from ex-scilons who've participated in the processing of this kind of data.
    4) Compile your set of affidavits, and write a short cover explaining how you think this violates the law. Send it to the appropriate authority.
    5) Watch 'em start an investigation...
  28. Anonymousedk Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    What worries me most about the Data Protection thing is the Fair Gaming.
    At present, they may (or may not) have an idea of who I am. By sending a Data Protection Request, they KNOW who I am.

    At this point, their MO can take two different paths:
    1) If they don't know who I am, they have the potential to add a name to their Database, and send back a blank sheet of paper. Nothing much.
    2) If they KNOW who I am, they can send back the info, and I guess I can request it deleted. At this point, they're obviously not going to delete anything, although they'll probably state that they have.
    The worrying part is that this is probably when they start slashing tires and such. Since it's just random vandalism, action can't be targeted at CoS.
    :tinfoil:?
  29. taurelilomea Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    it's NOT just random vandalism. Hopefully the courts will have noticed this by the time we have a DPA case rolling.
  30. Theta Omega Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    At the risk of repeating myself, if they do this, they're nailed. We know they do this kind of thing, there is a legal precedent- in fact, several legal precedents- for them doing this sort of thing, and it is in clear and direct contravention to the Data Protection Act. That means they will instantly lose any court case ensuing from this.

    Now, we know they're reading this, so we have to imagine that they're seeking legal advice (they're not stupid). The lawyers will be saying the same thing I'm saying. It would be amazingly stupid to try and fair game anyone who had made a complaint under the DPA, and it would be amazingly stupid to fail to comply with a DSAR or a DPA deletion request, since we *know* they keep this info, and we are prepared to take action to get them to comply with the law.

    In the UK, the Information Commissioner's Office is completely behind us, as Scientology orgs have a long history of abusing personal data. They know it, we know it, and this is just the kind of evidence they need to nail them.

    If I were at OSA in Saint Hill I'd be shitting my pants right now. There's a possibility of long jail terms here.
  31. Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    And I now have video evidence that scientology has personal information on me. Hope you're having fun on getting that data together OSA!
  32. dani_anon Member

    Interesting Facts about International Transfers

    I spoke to the Information Commissioners Office today, they explained and pointed me to this part of their site:

    International transfers - Information Commissioner's Office (ICO)

    The Church of Scientology College Inc can only transfer data to the US if the following applies:

    1) It is a transfer of Air Passenger Name Record Data - Well I have never heard of Cult Air, so Co$ don't own an airline.

    2) The Organisation are signed up to the US Safe Harbor Scheme - Well I can't find any reference to IAS, Church of Scientology, RTC in the list. It could be under another front group, feel free to search the list: Web Page for Safe Harbor List

    3) Standard Contractual Clauses - Now there are reams and reams of documents on this subject, which I have only flicked through. This as far as I can see - basically means that the organisation - that the data is transferred to - has to abide by the same rules/laws as the data transferrer. The clauses are:
    Personal data should be collected only for specified, explicit and legitimate purposes;
    The persons concerned should be informed about such purposes and the identity of the data controller;
    Any person concerned should have a right of access to his/her data and the opportunity to change or delete data which is incorrect; and
    If something goes wrong, appropriate remedies must be available to put things right, including compensation or damages through the competent courts.

    Yay - loads of possibilities if they use that :)

    link - Justice and Home Affairs - Data Protection - Model Contracts

    4) Binding Corporate Rules - now this is a big nono for co$ as they would have to admit they are a corporation, not a religion ;)

    Only one company - GE Electric has been authorised to transfer data via the Binding corporate rules.

    So it would appear that they may be in breach, by transferring personal data without abiding by the 8th principle. Time for a complaint :)

    Hope that helps you out - been lost in the docs most of today. Just passing on what I was informed.
  33. Accelerator Member

    Re: Interesting Facts about International Transfers

    Legally most religions are corporations.

    "Corporation" generally just means that the entity concerned has a legal personality.

    The Queen of England is a Corporation Sole.

    The University of Oxford is a Corporation.

    The Mayor and Commonalty and Citizens of the City of London are also a corporation.

    Derail ends here because you say that only GE have transfer rule under this provision.
  34. waffleman3 Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    Slightly off topic;
    I remember hearing about a security guard thinking of joining anonymous next protest because he hasn't been paid by the cult for his services.
    I remember something about him being told to bill Clearwater Fl.

    This sparks my interest... If he bills them and they know what he is owed (or at least, know he's owed something (they tend to suck at paying people)) then this means some of his information has left the UK.

    Anybody else know what I'm talking about?

    -sorry in advance for temporary thread detour-
  35. dani_anon Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    I didn't know that - thanks for the explanation :)

    I thought all the property owned by the churches (Not Co$ - just an example using church of england) was under companies such as Church of England (Holdings) Ltd?

    BTW, it's the ICO which says only GE have transfer under that provision - it clearly states that in the first link on my above post too.

    That sounds odd, maybe the UK orgs have lost more business than it appears - so they have very little cashflow?
  36. Theta Omega Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    I'm pretty sure the UK orgs are in deep trouble; they're not nearly as well supported by things like Narcanon, Criminon, etc., since in the good old U of K we have a real health system that actually treats people who have addiction problems. WISE is nowhere in the UK, and even the big orgs like Saint Hill, etc., seem to be regarded as more of a has-been thing than a going concern. :lrhcries: Cry me a river you fat dope fiend.
  37. Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    Well.

    I have just recieved a phone call at work from a withheld number. My team is only used for internal administration and the call came from an outside line - very unusual. When I picked up, and said "X department, Nick Speaking", the person laughed and hung up. Normally if they get disconnected, someone calls straight back.
  38. Accelerator Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    Church of England is a special case, but their property is managed by the Church Commissioners for England. The Church Commissioners Today | Church of England

    I know. That's why my detour into the legal niceties of corporation v. not corporation is irrelevant for the purposes of this thread.
  39. Theta Omega Member

    Re: Euro-folks: Data Protection Laws and Lulz

    I do hope you're keeping a diary.

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