Encouraging violence is against the rules.

Discussion in 'Protest Advice' started by NathanielFrihet, Jun 25, 2009.

  1. If you see somebody suggesting any kind of violence, please use the report button. Also, do not quote violent posts, as we will have to edit the quote as well. You have no idea how much easier this makes moderation for us.


    EDIT: Response to some of the lower posts.

    This is a privately owned server. If someone types up something against the law and posts it here, the admin who owns the server is responsible for it. He'll be the one who gets v&

    Now take off your god damned tinfoil and post like the server is in your living room, people.
  2. counterproductive

    It is not about the thugs. There is never a shortage of those who will take what does not belong to them. The temptation of revenge cannot bear the weight of social change.

    To me, the last two sermons seem absolutely bizarre, but a local audience may see things differently. For thirty years, tens of millions of Iranians have been at least tacitly supportive of the government. For this time the position of supreme leader has had a great deal of deference. Just imagine if a stranger told you that someone that you have looked up to your whole life is a psychopath. You would not believe them, no matter what they told you.

    A large conspiracy to perpetrate a massive fraud just to avoid a controversy (of disallowing candidates) is hard to accept. In light of the nuances and confusion surrounding the disputed 2000 Florida presidential election or 2004 Ohio election, it seems understandable that many Iranians may not be sure what to think. For many there is still plausible deniability.

    What is crucial to keep in mind is that it is not necessary for a government to maintain majority support to remain in power; it merely needs a significant minority (particularly a police state). The desires for an Islamic government and for a democratic government have come to an impasse. Many Iranians have not yet decided which is more important to them. It will be very difficult to convince those inclined to be satisfied with Ahmadinejad or Khamenei vs Mousavi that anything is substantially wrong. I can only hope that those striving for a truly democratic Iran may find the extraordinary determination to summon both great courage as well as immeasurable patience.

    paul marchertas
  3. Why?

    Why censorship? What are you afraid of?
    Someone mentioned people of Iran need to be armed and fight back and you erased it.
    What do you think people?
  4. Lara Member

    This is not a public privy. This is a privately owned forum. Their boards, their rules. If you want a forum to encourage violence, perhaps you should go and pay for your own.
  5. That's not what I asked.
    I asked what are they afraid of? Perhaps this is a government owned website to get info?



    <3 NF
  6. Ray Murphy Member

    It looks like the moderators here have got good judgement. I had one message removed - not because it promoted violence, but because it touched upon something of a violent nature that could conceivably happen. The removal of that message didn't concern me one bit.
  7. Lara Member

    My point was, censorship is irrelevant on a private forum. If you don't trust this forum then don't believe what it says.
  8. Thanks Nat, you are absolutely correct.
    Anonymous has been searching for the button that allows us to report the Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei to the Haag for crimes against humanity as he broadcasts nightly for a renewal of violence toward the citizens in Iran. Also, to report the &quot;popular mobilization force&quot; known as the Basij, aka the Ayatolla's mob, for perpetrating such crimes without due regard for the sanctity of human life.
    You have no idea how much easier this makes moderation for us.


    [COLOR=&quot;Red&quot;]&lt;3 NathanielFrihet[/COLOR]
  9. You people make me sick. I got my proof this is run by gov. Just 2 posts got deleted in this thread for speaking the truth along with many others. People, be aware.

    This post won't last long either.

    Yea,they are being deleted because posts like "It's run by the government" has no evidence or anything. Try writing a long tinfoil conspiracy thread if you like and PROVE we are run by the government if you wish instead of just posting "Government Run" all over the place. This and the other posts you have made do not add to the argument, topic, debate, etc. at all so they will be deleted like all the other posts that are like that.
  10. Self Defence is a Basic Human Right.

    The innocent have the right to take up arms and defend themselves if attacked.
  11. Ray Murphy Member

    I doubt very much if there would be any personal fear, but there could well be a fear of damaging or destroying their/our internet protest movement. The Iranian protestors on the ground are going to win soon anyway, partly because of unprecedented international support, so let's keep at it peacefully and show how the world has changed and will never be the same again because of the internet..

  12. the site is not run by the Government, but i am sure many of the posters on here like myself are from the USA and subject to the laws of the USA..

    so i respect the mods for deleting the crap encouraging violence or describing ways to commit violent acts that are probably illegal to encourage or partake in the USA.. this site is a great resource for the people of Iran and the people around the world who want to be involved in or contribute to assisting the people of Iran..

    lets not ruin the site by turning it into a lynch mob type site that encourages violence and in turn putting us under scrutiny by god knows who or what for encouraging a internet lynch mob..
    i do not mean the site attacks or putting names with pictures, what i mean are stupid chemical concoctions or homemade crap some encourage that would only serve to hurt those trying to use it.. like someone else said this is real life not Grand theft auto on x box or play station..
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Removed. Decided it would be more suitable in the opening post.
  14. lulz

    If this place had a thunderdome, I'd recommend it.

  15. Bard Member

    Al Capp, the cartoonist

    One of the theme groups that Al Capp created was about the Shmoos. They
    were lovable creatures that could satisfy many desires. One of their traits was
    that of self-sacrifice. They were delighted if a person had Shmoos for lunch.

    Going back a bit in history, the Redcoats were quite unhappy when the soldiers
    in the Continental Army hid behind trees, as they had learned from native
    American Indians. So, it must have been a forgotten lesson when the Civil
    War soldiers fought it out in the open where they made great targets.

    Now, we are told that we must play nice and advise youngsters in Iran to be
    stupid and join mass protests where they are easy targets for mayhem.

    There are many ways to reverse the odds, and imagination is a great tool to
    figure out tactics. We in the USA all suffer from attention deficit disorder, where
    we simply must have immediate solutions. It would make far more sense to
    talk about the long haul, where changing the government would start with
    changing the way people think.

    Defeat Theocracy Now!
  16. i second this!
  17. They are not going to win if they're not armed or if they don't have the guts to shoot back when attacked.

    But I'm not concerned about the last part, because the Iranians are much braver and willing to die for freedom, unlike the wussies running this forum using the same tactics as a certain television company named IRIB, namely censorship.

    Good going in supporting Iranians fighting for freedom of speech by supporting censorship yourselves /sarc.
  18. [color=&quot;blue&quot;]Oh noice edit.
    art-bell-8-20-05.jpg I immediately thought of this guy.[/color]
  19. Ray Murphy Member

    They'll win alright, and they'll do it quite soon. The ~1,000,000 people on the streets after the fraudulent election wanted fair voting and they will get it within a few months.

    Others want to overturn the whole system but that cannot possibly happen unless an alternative system has been designed and some sort of leadership is in place, but that couldn't succeed unless a majority wanted it - which brings us back to fair voting. Without that they would end up with the same scenario - a minority controlling the majority with violence.

    We all know what could be done, but it's a criminal offence in most of our respective countries to mention some of those things here unless we are merely discussing self defence.

    I haven't got a clue who runs this forum, but it seems they are dedicated to assisting and protecting others via protest movements and staying in business, rather than going to jail where they cannot help anyone very much.
  20. there have been thousands of revolutions won without a bunch of militant rednecks advising them how to do it..:rolleyes:

    human nature kind of gives you hints when you might need to whip someones ass and take their gun to survive or run like hell and live to fight another day..
  21. [IMG]
    Agreement. Nothing will stop our Persian Epic Rave Brothers.

  22. SanguineRose Member

    To the Claims of Censorship:

    Inciting Violence is not the purpose of this forum. Posts like "How to mix chemical warfare agents from home to kill Basij" has no purpose at all here. It does not help the protesters at all.

    One thing that does have merit are tactics and techniques against the Basij:

    This post actually has some use and good information in it. Another good information is Urban warfare and how to disable Basij Motorcycles (Non-Violently) by using caltrops Caltrop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , Methods on evading capture, etc.

    This is useful and it will save their life in the long run but making bombs and weapons to kill them is counter productive. They are Iranians too and killing their brothers is not helping anyone. This is not just Them Against Us but their neighbors, their sisters, their brothers, their father, their uncle, their mother, etc. against each other. You should think of them and the poeple they are really fighting, this is not just some evading country.
  23. Bard Member

    Reclaiming Persia for Persians

    My impression is that the conflict is between Pagan Persians trying to reclaim
    their country from the Muslim Arabs who invaded and forced a change of
    culture and established a cruel theocracy.

    And the Arabs did all this with violence which continues to this day. Now, to be
    politically correct the Persians must "make nice" against a ruthless alien enemy.

    Defeat Theocracy Now!
  24. Ray Murphy Member

    The common denominator for everyone, irrespective of their religious or cultural beliefs, is probably fairness in government
  25. Lynx Member

    As Sanguine Rose Pointed out, We aren't immune to the law. The people responsible for the hosting of the forums have to abide the law. It appears that some have a deluded view on what free speech is and what it isn't.

    Id like for those that seem to have problems with the removal of illegal content, such as "how to make X apparatus able to kill Y in Z radius" to go to e.g register a domain name and get some hosting, secondly start posting said content on there, plain text is fine. Step three would include either tipping of Department Of Homeland Security immediately that you want to be on the terrorist watch list or waiting for them to find your site, which shouldn't be hard because you are going to post the link everywhere. Right ?

    I also suggest you complain at tinypic about the removal of content after you posted CP, i mean thats also freedom of expression isn't it ?

    Or how about you tell the judge you we're exercising your freedom of speech when you said you we're going to shoot or brutally maim a police officer in function after getting a speeding ticket ?

    Free speech doesn't exempt you or anyone for that matter of abiding the law.

    We do the best we can to provide a stable service to communicate as freely as possible, your opinions aren't censored we don't force you to agree with what any of us think.

    And for those that like to think we are some sort of governmental agency, don't you think we'd be encouraging you to post such content so we could come knock your door down at 5 am ?

    Enforcement of those rules are for both OUR and YOUR well being.
  26. jtreglio Member

    All excellent points. While, the Communications Decency Act, 47 USC section 230, generally protects the administrators from every dumbass thing we can think of, there's no reason to risk it.

    Second, violence is ultimately counterproductive to what these people are trying to accomplish. Strategically, the only way they can win is if the Assembly of Experts, or the army decide enough is enough and back the protesters. If the protests go violent, the elites stay put.

    Unfortunately, this also means a lot of innocent people are going to be hurt, and more than a few are going to die. That sucks, but this is the only way.
  27. Bard Member

    Has anyone bothered to note the server location?

    I note with interest that everyone posting in this thread tacitly assumes the
    website is located in the USA where USA laws apply. Take a look again, the
    website servers are located in Sweden where the laws are different. Big

    Click on this link below and page down to the links about anonymous sites in
    Sweden, where you can set up a site without revealing anything about yourself.

    Defeat Theocracy Now!
  28. Bard Member

  29. though the servers may be in sweden..

    I'd like to point out that the "noble" American revolution,
    in which the local populace took up arms, occured
    under far less justification.

    it's perfectly valid for this web site - which has done
    an incredible job imho - which is hosted under a state
    of law, and feels it should comply with its principles,
    to decide it does not condone violence.

    But in Iran, a country whose laws and law enforcement
    no longer protect justice, any method to redress
    the system is valid.

    within Iran, I would argue an Iranian citizen would have
    ethical grounds for following whatever method of choice
    to fight tryanny, violent or otherwise.

    that said, can we link to sites supporting a more
    militant action - for the purpose of "academic critique"?
  30. No. Don't even suggest it, don't even go around it. If you want to do all that crap then find some other site where the ppl are more likeminded. Chances are though those places are not accepting new mems.

    We are, as you said, not in Iran. Violence = GTFO
  31. Don't know what the law says Sweden.

    But in terms of offering info about and/or advocating violence, here are some thoughts:

    1) Gotta think really carefully about going the same route as the regime.

    2) When all is said and done, some military capability may possibly be necessary to overthrow the regime.

    (a) Some folks are still hoping in behind-the-scenes negotiations by Rafsanjani and others.

    (b) Some folks are hoping that Evin Prison can be liberated and the State Media can be confiscated. That will require arms. Sorry, no way around that.

    3) It violates Criminal Law in some jurisdictions to advocate violence (uttering threats); and/or advocate violence against a protected group (hate propaganda). (But the Laws of War may supercede the Criminal Code.)

    4) Notwithstanding point 3, the notion of self-defence has legitimacy. How widely will that be interpreted? Dunno.

    (a) On a narrow scale, giving information on how to disable a Basij who is attacking you with a baton/bike/rifle/grenade is likely not a problem. But the Mods have already said that.

    (b) On a broader scale, giving information on how to prevent/stop the widespread illegal arrests, torture, rape, and murder of huge numbers of citizens exercising rights guaranteed by international conventions -- that seems to be the problem. (And I am being real, not sarcastic.)

    5) Problems have solutions.

    6) Organized protesters offering info about and engaging in armed combat are recognized as lawful combattants by the Laws of War whether such protesters are uniformed or not,as long as they carry their weapons openly. (Been a while since I looked at those laws, but let's see where all this goes.)

    7) There is the problem of optics. This forum needs to preserve its legitimacy in the eyes of the world in order to do its job. We need to respect that -- with some questioning and clarification. It would help if there were a private message function.

    In any case, I would like to hear what folks think about these 7 points, please. Thank you. :)
  32. Bard Member

    Slavery for women goes back many years

    As more of the past history becomes common knowledge, it is obvious that the
    Muslim thugs have been ruining the lives of women in Iran for many years,
    going back to original Arab conquests. Just in the past 30 years the back and
    forth terrorist violence has not changed the country for the better. Take the
    MEK for example. They have been like chamelons with their switches of

    Maybe somebody with a better background in world history can refute this, but
    it is my impression that no modern country has won freedom without a major
    war. In some instances, a successful coup starts with taking control of the
    radio and television broadcast stations.

    To sum up, continued "peaceful" protests will only serve to create more victims.

    Defeat Theocracy Now!
  33. You do understand that it is not our place to encourage violence in Iran, yes?
  34. Ray Murphy Member

    Apparently not.
  35. Making an observation about armed rebellion is different from encouraging violence.
  36. Ray Murphy Member

    You should delete half of the carefully worded "observations"
  37. Bard Member

    Pointing out facts is not advocating violence

    The "bottom" line is that, to avoid violence, we should be telling the people in
    Iran to stay home. Everything that has been posted on this forum encourages
    people to "have courage" and get beat up some more.

    As I see it, the economy is going down the tube and people are being tortured
    and killed. Granted the thugs in charge will continue to make slaves of the
    women, but at a lower rate if the protests stop.

    Ghandi finally won freedom for India from the British, but that was because the
    British people have some impact on their government. Ghandi would have
    failed if the enemy had been the Indian government itself, and not outsiders.

    When the MEK was fiddling around, they actually used terrorist methods, with
    bombings and so forth, quite similar to the bombings in Muslim countries all
    over the world today.

    It isn't necessary to give instructions on how to kill people. The people of Iran
    have had plenty of experience without outside help. The methods are legion,
    and they already know what methods are available.

    I still contend that the only solution is long term, and involves a sea change in
    the way people think. As long as they can be conned by threats from
    imaginary beings, nothing will change.

    And that same observation applies to the USA and other western countries, too.

    Defeat Theocracy Now!
  38. Texas Fossil Member

    Nice station.

    You have newer equipment than I do, but I am older too.

    Like most Hams (I am not a normal ham today, if there is such a thing) my computer time has encroached on my operating and building time. Did a lot of home brew back in the early 80's. Still have equipment to fab PC boards and such.

    73 de
  39. Texas Fossil Member

    "or the army decide enough is enough and back the protesters."


    That is why they arrested 36 officers a couple of days ago. And Rafsanjani was at one time commander-in-chief. The Thugullahs fear the combination. I am praying that the supressed Persian culture will win-out and the military turn on them. Seems the only good outcome.

    Cretin who commit the atrosities that happend the past 2 weeks deserve to be punished. I feel it is backfiring on them. Backfire is slow. Blowback happens quicker.

    At least it is getting coverage in the U.S. now. What Congressman McCotter said this week is encouraging. See >> Taraneh's Story makes it 2 floor of U.S. House Representatives YouTube - McCotter on Iran's Khamenei: Your Referendum Has Been Held and You Have Failed Your Test
  40. I see we have some here who oppose 'observations' and free speech. Sometimes I wonder if they think they are in charge of everything; that anything they don't personally approve should be silenced and mocked. Regime thinking.

    As I have said many many times before, it is the people who decide to hit the streets. No one is forcing them.

    And it seems, despite the 'carefully worded' admonitions to play it safe, stay home, and obey illegal laws, the protesters will resist any efforts to force them to be silent and stay home.

    As for long term: is 30 years and even more not long term enough for you? Some of you talk as if change just started a month ago. Why? Just because you weren't plugged in all those years?

    As for dragging old Mahatma Ghandi into this, I seriously suspect that your analogy more accurately reflects Neville Chamberlain.

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