Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

Moralfag protest:

Well, as you might have seen in http://forums.whyweprotest.net/107-canada/edmonton-alberta-12899/ there is a bit of a schism developing between the anti-moralfags and the moralfags at the Edmonton protests. I’ve created a separate thread here to deal with this, as there is a suggestion to hold a second/separate protest entirely by moralfags either later in the same day as scheduled by the “official” protests, or on a separate day altogether.

To make a few things clear about this, here is some information as I understand it, anyone feel free to jump in and correct any misunderstandings or misconceptions.

1) Several people, h0m3r and myself being the ones who’ve been public about it here on enturb have decided not to attend the “regularly scheduled” protests due to personal moral/ethical issues with the conduct and personalities of several of the “anti-moralfags” at the protest. There are other people who have also apparently considered joining the protests, but do not wish to be associated with the internet haet machine and it’s proponents.

2) For myself at least, and the few people I’ve had a chance to go into, this issue runs deeper than any one or two items that can be pointed at, but rather seems to be a fundamental philosophical difference. There is also a fundamental lack of trust of the anti-moralfag types who, we believe would cheerfully spend their time and effort trying to be as crude as possible simply because they are aware it bothers the rest of us.

3) Several of the more neutral types are trying hard to sew the rift that has appeared, and I would personally like to give them every accolade and bit of respect that is possible for trying. In no way is this issue, or the clash of beliefs a negative reflection on your attempts or efforts.

The question at hand seems to be twofold: can there really be a compromise between the moral and ethical issues raised by the moralfag group, and the desire to “lol ethics” from the anti-moralfag group? (“Shut up and just live with it, laugh because it’s the internet” is not a compromise, btw.)

If no compromise can be found, (which I personally feel is more likely, given the trust issues and fundamental philosophical differences between the two groups,) is a second/separate protest desired by the moralfags, and will it somehow bring about the ragnarok-like end of everything because we have “divided our efforts”. (In other words, do enough moralfags want to participate in a second/separate protest, and even if they do, is that participation in a second protest more detrimental than losing the participation of those protesters altogether.)

Your input, please, and thank you.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate)

Here is what I propose:


The nonmoralfags will refrain from using the more colourful memes (racism, sexism, etc..) on official protest materal. This includes the pedobear costume(which is a shame, it looked like it took a while to make) and the moralfags will continue to protest with us.

Is this reasonable?

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate)

I understand what you are saying, but the level of seriousness does not have that big an impact for the large protest. There's never much foot traffic at the church so the jokes, etc are staying within the protesters. Simply having bodies makes the protest work, and it does not matter if they are in it for the "lulz" or not if their signs at least are appropriate.

The moralfags (as I am) should protest the same day as the everyone else, but instead grab some fliers and go on guerrilla marches around Edmonton. Three of us went to a corner on Churchill Square facing the City Center mall doors and talked to a ton of people and handed out lots of fliers. Let the moralfags do that, but still lend support to everyone else that's wants to have fun, but is still trying to help people who are trapped.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate)

Do we have any one who opposes moralfags? I mean, at most the peopel who came off that way were simply saying "Hay, dont quit because of this, it is kind of funny"?

That said, I like Ormuzd's idea. If they want to protest with everyone else, the moralfags can, but if they get feed up they can circulate the area.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate)

You know if it were possible to be assured that the non-moralfags would tone it down, quit being douches, stop yelling "-ism"s, playing songs like that, writing such signs etc...personally, at least, I'd consider it. The reality is though, that the nature of the beast means you can't speak for anyone but yourself in this, and there are quite a few personalities involved in this who simply by virute of what has been said in these enturb threads will be CERTAIN to show up with the most offensive signs, screaming the most offensive things they can think of, play the most offensive music etc. simply to "get the point across" that...well, actually, I have no real idea what point they are trying to make. That they can't be controlled? Well yes, we know that...that's one of the reasons we don't want to be associated with them.

You find me a shop that will do up decals for cheap, and I'll wrap a longcat around my car and drive around honking and playing music. I certainly don't mind doing a rickroll, (though I really think it's one of the most awful songs ever invented,) and participating in a dozen other memes. You seem a decent sort, Mal, and so do many others, (the neutrals, as I think of you,) and I'd have no problem protesting side by side with you, and I haven't had an issue with it to date. I can cheerfully hold up my sign, do the good deed, and not feel ashamed to be associated with you, even if only vestigialy.

The same, unfortunately can't be said for all of the folks at that protest, and you know that as well as I do. That's the issue. I'd rather simply not be a part of this at all, (or only a part of it in that I offer hosting to selected anons, and do things like send money to gregg's defense fund, etc.) than I would standing next to a bunch of "-ist"s again, especially the unapologetic attention seekers among them.

You know, if it was just me, I’d never have said anything, and I’d just have gone my merry way, and that’d be that. It’s not though…I’m simply the one that’s actually posting about this. There are quite a few others who share, if not my exact feelings, similar enough ones to have caused them to leave the protest as well. That said, just as you can not speak for the /b/tards, I can’t speak for these folks either. Even if I felt the /b/tards had agreed to play nice, I can’t say that the rest of these good folk will return ro not. I encourage them to respond.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate)

I understand that many memes probably don't even make it to the general public, but they get through to me and that's enough to make me want to separate myself from it all. If you think that the "extramoralfags" going for a separate march is a good idea, why would you be opposed to us staging a completely separate protest? Even if it were just later that day, what we've done now is extended the protest, maximized the win.

Whether others will emerge to support this movement or not, I have definately made the decision to continue the fight alone. I completely support the opportunity for others to be a part of an alternate protest. I don't agree that this is about pride but ethical motive, and if I am uncomfortable with who I am associating myself with than that is my issue and I will not impose my morals upon others.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate)

I don't know about others but I personally feel a separate "moralfag" protest is unnecessary and a terrible division of our efforts against the COS. As per my post below.


For the record 404, I joined your IRC server the other day for the specific reason of settling our differences out over IRC as per your post instead of in the thread, but things rather got out of hand which I truly regret as this entire arguement could have been avoided. Now knowing your beliefs more in-depth, I recognize my initial statement was not the greatest way to enter the conversation and I did not explain my intentions well, for which I apologize.

Anonymous is a diverse group of people from all races, belief systems, nationalities, religions, etc, in the end there's going to be people you despise and don't want to be associated with, but the protests are about being bigger than our differences and uniting in our common cause against the CoS. One person you disagree with in the melting pot of the internet should not turn you away from the entire protest.

The only difference here between the moralfags and anti-moralfags is where we set our limits, and it should be recognized that in a group such as anonymous there are going to be such differences. I said myself that I would not have played the CD had I known the full extent of the lyrics, while I myself do not have a problem with them, I recognize that others DO have a problem with them.

Did anyone say they didn't want "moralfag protesters" ...?

If it means so much to people, I'll throw away the CD and by all means I'm willing to throw the arguement aside for our cause, I don't see why the topic even has to come up during a protest. There's a lot of members of anonymous that I have a problem with, especially /b/tards, but for the sake of our cause I've come out repeatedly anyways.

Despite our low turnout, it was a fun protest and I enjoyed it as well as our chat at Brewsters, and would hate to see you go. I'm willing to put up with a moralfag if you can put up with an anti-moralfag. Let us shake hands and protest crazed cultists together.

Well, here I am, speaking for myself. Personally I don't believe my signs were offensive, I don't believe I did anything truly offensive at the protest, I believe my only part in this was the accidental playing of the song, which I stated was a mistake. I was going to play it again to make a statement, but I don't want to be dividing the protests any further. I will still be bringing it and playing it on my iPod simply for my sake, but I will not play it over the boombox so noone else has to have any association with such content.

Or how about we drop the offensive content altogether, and simply don't bring up the topic at the protests? Doesn't seem that hard IMO, though I did initially agree and still do agree with having squads roam around the City Center, since we don't exactly get many people coming by us at the church itself

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate)

If the anti-moralfags are set on being offensive just to piss off the moralfags then no, there can be no compromise. But if both sides can find an acceptable level of appropriate behavior while at the protest then I think there could be compromise.

I think a could start would be nixxing anything that falls under bigotry. Racism sexism gay hating. Intolerance in general. Even in jest or irony or mockery. Just skip it. Also... Drop tge CP. Obviously a very offensive topic.

Respect each others right to believe whatever they want and don't antagonize each other. Save the moral/ethical debates for the internet. Focus on what brought us together rather than what keeps us apart at other times.

I am hoping that there can be compromise. I feel that broken groups will weaken our cause. Strength in numbers and a united front.

But... If there can be no compromise, I think that rather than a different day that the moralfags should just protest at a different time. Make it look like we are protesting in shifts. That way there is still the appearance of unity in our cause despite the rift in moral and ethical beliefs.

Also... Thoug this may be taken as offensive by anti-moralfags... I feel that it would be wiser to let the moralfags deal with media and people. They are less likely to be written off by the media.

I talk too much.
But I care about this protest and I feel that something good is being done here and I do not want to see it fail. Especially by our own hands.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate)

If there was a moralfag-only protest I would be sure to be there and I would do everything I could to make sure my signs and fliers are appropriate and professional. But, if there was a antimoralfag-only protest I'd be there too and wouldn't change anything about my methods or perspective.

Even if everyone else around was in it for the gags, the sheer seriousness of the Church of Scientology would be enough to keep everyone that wants to make an impact a valuable asset. H0m3r and 404hrm, if the other protesters make you uncomfortable, hang around with the serious ones like myself.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate)

I suppose you have a valid point, but (as you said in the OP) if you're not willing to trust us negotiations are absolutely pointless.

(on a side note, I do know of a decal shop that can do any design for $1 a sq. foot per colour.)


Hom3r,

Here is my big fear. If we start planning entirely seperate protests newcomers will be completely fucked about who to join, what to do, where to show up. Im fine if you guys plan to do a side protest at the same time, but what this is shaping up to be is an entirely different group. I'm assuming you'd be protesting at different times, in different areas. What this will lead to, I feel, is [strike] Piggy's glasses being stolen. What will follow is Ralph and Piggy going to retrieve them, only to have piggy fall off a cliff and die[/strike] hostility between the two groups and eventually major failure(saw this happen in clear water, don't know how it turned out)

If you want to organize an extension of our protest be my guest (Lol, like I could do anything about it)but could you have you protesting wither During the other one, or (if numbers allow) after our protest so there is a constant stream of 10-15 people for the entire day.

I changed the thread title to reflect fucking literature.

Also, if this schism goes through I'm referring to the moral fags as "Ralph's group" and I WILL give you guys a conch.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

Let the moralfags show up at 10:00. I already planned on going to the corner on Churchill Square again before the protest starts. If anyone wants to join me and hang out at the corner, or start at the Church instead (I prefer the corner though, more foot traffic) then maybe that could be the compromise.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

If it means so much to people, I'll throw away the CD and by all means I'm willing to throw the arguement aside for our cause, I don't see why the topic even has to come up during a protest...

Despite our low turnout, it was a fun protest and I enjoyed it as well as our chat at Brewsters, and would hate to see you go. I'm willing to put up with a moralfag if you can put up with an anti-moralfag. Let us shake hands and protest crazed cultists together.

I am willing to make the compromise. Anyone else?

It shouldn't matter who deals with the media, because nothing even remotely related to the topic at hand should come up. Did anyone have any objections to how I handled the CTV interview (besides my miscount of the edmonton scilons, which someone corrected me on afterwards).

Remember, this entire discussion has evolved only on Enturbulation, it didn't come up at the protest.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

There seem to be a few recurring statements by the other protestors that I feel I should address. First off, when someone does not want to attend an event because the find some of the individuals or actions of those individuals reprehensible, the argument "well *I* don't find it reprehensible, so just live with it/ignore it/etc." isn't exactly going to sway people.

Secondly, I happen to agree that if we "Split-protest" doing it later in the day as the "official" one, say 3:00pm or 3:30pm so that it flows almost naturally after the "official" one would have broken up is a good idea.

As to trusting people: I may be able to rustle up some trust for you Mal, as you seem to be trying to do a good thing, and many of the others, indeed, but I have to admit that there are several individuals in that group I wouldn't turn my back on, let alone trust to behave in a civilised manner. I won't go into details on individuals, since I am not here to insult anyone, or hurt their feelings, simply that my exposure to these individual, limited though it may be, has not lent itself to trust in any fashion whatsoever.

"I'm willing to put up with a moralfag if you can put up with an anti-moralfag." Well, you see, no, I am not willing to. The point of this matter is that anti-moralfags are just as bad as, if not in some cases worse than, the church of scientology, and it's actions. You might not understand that, or why I believe it to be so, but the truth of the matter is you don't have to. It is so, and your understanding of that does not affect the reality of it.

If all the anti-moralfags were capable of toning down what I, (and "joe public") would find offensive, and all were willing to live by those rules, sure, I wouldn't have an issue. I ahve been to multiple protests, after all, and thrown time, money and effort at this, as have many, many others. The truth is, there are many /b/tards among the group I *don't* believe would tone it down, for any reason, in fact, the mere knowledge that it irritates other protesters is probably incentive for them to be as out there as possible.

That said, I cast my vote for a time-offset split-protest, with moralfags filling in after the main protest has broken up. 3:00 or 3:30, maybe.

Edit: I'd also like to point out once more that "shut up and ignore the anti-moralfags because lol internets/lol ethics" is not a compromise.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate)

^This.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

Heard that kind of intolerance before. And no, you cannot compare anti-moralfags to the Scientologists, you are trying to lay claim to some sort of understanding of the topic at hand when you in fact know nothing. You seem to think of anti-moralfags as depraved psychopaths with no limits on what they will do, which is entirely untrue.

Our arguement and belief that beliefs themselves are arbitrary and differ from person to person and thus can never be fundamentally true in any way shape or form, does not compare to an organization that defrauds and brainwashes it's members, litigates, stalks, harasses and assasinates it's critics, infiltrates governments and attempts to pass off poorly written and highly harmful texts as a helpful religion, and I find it highly offensive that you would even try to draw the comparison.

There are those of us who believe you can find a balance between making jokes and fighting a ruthless organization. All work and no play makes Anonymous very dull and unmotivated.

I was all for tolerance, and always will be. You will be missed, regardless of what you think of me.

http://www.youtube.com/v/eyJrUoEBWu4

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

..Completely off topic but damn, I miss all the good stuff. :sad:

Epic partyvan rickroll.. :flop:

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

Just as you accuse me of making assumptions, you yourself make them. I did not accuse you of being depraved psychopaths. I said you did not have firm boundaries on behavior, which, regardless of what you believe is something *I* believe is necessary to the proper functioning of society. As I have said countless times before, it is a fundamental philosophical difference.

Regardless of your desire to avoid the comparison, I do believe that anyone who would for any reason cross the moral boundaries of racism/sexism/"etc-ism" is just as wrong, just as "evil", for lack of a better word, as those would brainwash their fellows.

The hardest part about being tolerant is tolerating the intolerant. I can tolerate different religious beliefs, different sexual preferences, different races etc. What I can't tolerate are those who are intolerant, and yes, I am FULLY aware of that ironic hypocrisy. To me, wrong is wrong, regardless. I understand you are incapable of believing or understanding that, but it is what I believe. Very little exists that would make me so passionate, and get me to waste my time like this, but when I feel something is well and truly ethically unconscionable, I simply can not stand by and do nothing. The whole reason I am against scientology is that I feel that what they do is deeply, terribly wrong. That exact same thing applies to people who would make racist jokes, mock the religious beliefs of others, (or mock people because they believe in religion at all,) etc. Just as I feel that harming another, or destroying their property is wrong. Wrong is wrong, regardless of the reasoning. The ends do not justify the means. I realize you don’t believe in that, that you believe “wrong” is, at best, a fluid concept, but I do not. Thus at least part of this issue.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

Why don't I make a "compromise" for you here. I officially give you my internet permission to think of me as an intolerant douche bag because I believe that racism (even in jest) as well as all the other "-ism"s (again, even in jest,) are just as reprehensible as brainwashing and stealing. You can call me an uptight self-righteous bastard because I think that people who sit around bragging about how they wander the city breaking people's windows because they are bored are not people I would ever choose to associate with. You can also feel entirely free to think me insane because I believe in a religion, believe in defending those who can not defend themselves, (or are not present,) and I believe that in the end, such things MATTER and life is not a joke.

If my beliefs make me a bad person, a douche, intolerant, a hypocrite, or any other slur, adjective or what-have-you you'd care to throw my way, I accept that mantle with pride, and I state this here for all the internet to see: that is who I am, and that is who I CHOOSE to be, knowing and understanding all the alternatives that I have been presented with, belief-wise.

That said, I'm going to protest later on in the day on the 14th, and maybe, just maybe, a few people will join me. If not, me and my boxcar and some signs will go it alone. This way our forces aren't "divided" they are simply offset, so the protest seems to go on for a longer time. I also state here for the record that no one SHOULD join me, because I am a giant protest ending douche bag who is trying to destroy everyone else’s hard work with my silly ethics and caring about who I stand with. You all should go to the regularly scheduled protest at 12:00pm.

Now, you can feel good about yourself, and I, (and anyone who feels the same as I do, and chooses to protest in a moralfag-only protest,) will be able to do the protesting thing with a clean conscience.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

I'll admit, there were a few things I found inappropriate about the last protest. The design on the cake and the knocking on/holding signs up to the window, among a few others things. Still, this last protest met with the most support from pedestrians. Most people as they walked past would say "honk" and many said we were doing a great job. I think only one person said we were wrong and didn't like what we were doing but was still willing to listen to us for a few minutes.

Our main purpose is to inform, and we are doing a great job of it. Don't let personal differences cheapen the effects we have already had.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

One which has no relation to our protest and thus no effect on it, you knew you would be protesting alongside /b/tards and the like from the beginning. Also, please define "firm boundaries on behaviour" in your opinion.
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There is making a joke, and then there is being truly racist/sexist, etc. Just because you use a term which can be offensive, does not mean it is used in an offensive manner or that anything is meant by it.

Having been brought up in a strongly christian fundamentalist home and school where ethics and morals were everyday conversation and a large part of my studies (and remain so to this day), I would debate that.

What you feel is wrong, is not necessarily wrong for the person next to you. For some aboriginal tribes cannibalism was a ritual and neither uncommon nor looked down upon several hundred years ago. Now look at our society today, think anyone is willing to even suggest the idea? Morals and ethics are always changing, what is right today may be wrong tomorrow, what is wrong to you may be right to another, and vice versa.

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And you think we approve of that kind of behaviour? Or do you think we would do such a thing ourselves?



The day I see "Young male with differing ethical views slaughters 30 children in a school" as a serious headline is the day I become an hero.

Absolutely fantastic, I wouldn't have it any other way.
Obviously required Voltaire quote:

I am not bashing your religion nor do I agree with most of the actions you depicted in your post, I merely recognize that some people do not have said objections. I do think you are uptight, intolerant, self-righteous and even possessing a victim complex, but it is for what you have said in the manner you have said it, not for your beliefs themselves.


EDIT: Did anyone actually end up eating any of the cake...? I couldn't bring myself to.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

I wasn't there for the tapping on the glass or signs up at the window part (I know at the beginning someone flashed a sign through the open windows, is that what is referred to?) If this stuff happened at the end of the protest I was on a mission from marcabia with Team Vader handing out fliers on Jasper Ave during that.

Now I admit I erm... found the cake hilarious and wasn't offended at the song. I'm not a good person =(. But that aside I didn't say anything one way or the other and wouldn't have cared either way if either were or were not there. There has to be some serious business in the protests because the only way this works is to be an effective picketer.

And I haven't seen even one guy say here, "Olololol, gtfo moral fag, hurr." Probably because then Mal gets to dome the thread and they get to have fun-times (Or not so much perhaps). If those supporters aren't the ones the hive mind wants then they should be disassociated from. Especially whoever it was that tapped the glass (Wasn't there but apparently that got the cops to actually COME and warn everyone with a citation.)

Get a vote going, hive mind votes and then we go along from there is my suggestion. Because it seems the kind of people this is directed at are the ones we don't want there. I know I certainly don't want someone that's going to cause the police to clamp down on us for breaking laws.

And as a last note, what I wouldn't support is removing the fun altogether because I come to protest Scientology and have fun. After all we're the ones out there doing the work so we should be entitled to have a good time while doing it (Keeping the above in mind of course.)

I would have if I had a fork and knife, it made me a sad panda that I had to leave that delicious caek untouched =(.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

Newfag reporting in,

Please stop taking everything as a personal attack. You're both putting words in each other's mouths, and that more than anything is why this argument has lasted this long.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

Was there, but wasn't part of it, didn't think it was a great idea cause that is going a bit overboard and could be seen as harassment. Probably was when you were out on flyer patrol, it was fairly late in the protest if I remember correctly, probably around 2ish? I did the timbits thing, but we bothered the scilons for about 10 seconds and were making a friendly offer

How could they not want timbits and cake?

srsly

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

You know, those young boys that had beaten that girl (as per the IRC discussion you jumped into the middle of,) I don't view as psychopaths. I know what a psychopath *is*, and clinically, they weren't. Troubled individuals, yes, but they most certainly were not psychopaths. I wouldn't accuse them of being so any more than I would you.

Look up the clinical definitions of such terms before you accuse me of calling someone them by proxy. I view people without fixed moral standards as wrong and "evil" just as much as I view those boys as being. In their case, then enacted phsyical violence upon another, but mental and emotional abuse can, and is, just as damaging. That's part of what you refuse to see or believe, and that's your choice.

If you really wish to take a bunch of conversations and cut them up, taking each one out of context to string them together to make me look even more insane, hey, go ahead. I understand you have a need for this. Can I say anything else that will feed your desires in this matter? Sign my name to something, type it up nicely?

You are repeatedly trying to force yoru beliefs in moral nhilism/moral relativism down my throat. I am not trying at all to force my beliefs on you. I am saying "My beliefs clash, so *I* will be the one to leave, and do something at a different time/on my own etc.

The other part of this is, my conflict with you is only a small, (very small, in the global scheme of things) reason behind my descision here. You are, through you sheer persistance and increasing attempts to force your belief system on my a great EXAMPLE of why I find such a break with the group nessesary, but by no stretch the only reason.

I have an ethical issue with your beliefs, the beliefs of many others, and the actions taken by these people. As such, I have chosen to take my leave of the group, and protest at a different time, and direct my energies towards helping other anons I feel better reflect and repsent my beliefs. I have stated this that others who feel the same can choose, of their own volition to join me, or not, as they will. I have stated publicly that the MAIN protest is the one schedualed at the regular time, and they should attend that unless they, like myself, have a deep-seated ethical issue with the /b/tards, and would otherwise simply not attend.

No amount of pictures, copypasta, name-calling, or reiteration of your belief in variable morality will change that. You believe in one thing, I believe in another, and if it tears you up so much that I because of my beliefs I choose not to be around you, or others with simlar, or "worse" (from my point of view) beliefs, well...there's nothing I can do about that.

Don't, however, tell me that I am calling you, or anyone else a psychopath, because I am very stringent about using that word only in it's most clinical sense. I do not believe either you, nor those boys, are one. I do however, personally believe the actiosn of the /b/tards at the protests to be just as abberant as theirs. Wether you believe in this or not, *I* believe that emotional and mental attacks are as wrong as phsyical ones.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

My concern here is that anyone who talks to the media should be well-spoken and educated in why we're protesting, what they've done etc. I was on the other side of the street when the CTV folks were interviewing so I didn't hear anything so I can't say either way as to what you said. And I don't mean to imply that you did a bad job. I just don't want to see "hijinx" occurring while the media are interviewing someone because it's a fast way to loose cred and have the story tossed. Which I really don't want to see. Not to encourage playing to the media but... I think we really need to play to the media. They want to see clean cut every day people, not a bunch of rabble rousing young folk. (Not that we're all rabble-rousing young folk but if that is the perception that we give off, they won't take us seriously.) I think that the folk who lean more toward moralfaggery (lulz new word) are going to be more media friendly in that aspect.

This is my logic... does it make sense to you?

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

I've given my name a few times already, I could talk to the media if everyone wants.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

OKay, the caek was actually pretty good,

Also, the design was discussed about numerous times. I figured it would be a bit too much so I asked, like 4 times and no one objected. But it does not really matter. I take responsibility for the caek. The tapping of the glass was a bit too much, but it was just tapping on the glass

^
This



I just want to warn everyone:

If we do split up (which seems the only plausible outcome) there is NOTHING to stop one group from raiding another's protest. I can stop the discussion about it here(as it is not about scientology) but other than that no one can stoop the other's from doing it.

Oh god, THIS is the reason Anonymous is better left on the tubes

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

Not wanting to be alarmist at all, but wouldn't making an "official" descision on this be dangerously close to "offical spokesperson" territory, and put you at risk?

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

More like a liaison, and only in the event that some media does show up and I happen to be around.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

You are right Mal, there is absolutely nothing to stop the /b/tards from raiding the moralfag protest. The alternative to at least giving this a *try* however, is simply for the moralfags to leave, and take no part at all. You yourself were asking for some trust between the moralfags and the /b/tards, well, it's a bit of a first step. Trust is earned, and if the /b/tards make the choice not to be douches, then some of the moralfags might rejoin the main protest. Again, each individual who participates makes their own individual choice, but that's how I, at least see it. If the /b/tards choose to raid the moralfag protest, they are simply reconfirming for us who and what they are, and proving that the assistance and/or presence of the moralfag population is in no way desired.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

I think you did a fine job EdmontonAnon,

Although having said that I know I was searching for Ormuzd when I saw the CTV van because of how he handled Ray (Our friendly bullbaiter in April).

What are we doing to mentally abuse the scilons though?

Edit:

I don't agree with splitting the protest as I was just talking with one of the guys I came with and he has a good point which is that by further dividing the numbers we might as well just do mini-raids on protest day. If we can't get along then we should allow this protest to serve as a warning to other cities (IE: Failure) and do mini-raids instead.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

Ormuzd was the dude who handled the bullbaiter? That whole thing came up in conversation today at work. There was huzzah and cheering here from all three of us who attend the protests over how that was handled. "The anon who talked to the bullbaiter" is a celebrity!

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

Thanks for the support guys. Yep, that was me in the green hat and white poncho thing who talked to him for the few hours he was around. 404hrm, I go by "Xenort" on IRC which could be why you were confused about me.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

Yes, my belief that right and wrong are not as simple as black and white is as sick and twisted as a gang beating up a defenseless child.

Perfectly. And I do hope and believe during the interview I was well spoken and certainly educated on the subject. If someone else believes they can do better by all means, but as I said, this entire debate on morality has no place in a media setting, I got our point across in an efficient manner with respect to the diverse beliefs of Anonymous.

I heard about that, sounded pretty awesome and I wish I was there to hear the argument. If Ormuzd would like to handle the next interview, by all means go for it, I merely took it because CTV just jumped right into an interview and, my apologies if I misinterpreted this, the anon who was being interviewed didn't seem that comfortable with it, and I felt comfortable with my ability to explain to the media why we do what we do (I have been interviewed before).

I hate cameras, I'm not exactly photogenic by any means

That would defeat the entire point of splitting up, and would be a really stupid idea, fighting each other instead of working together in our cause against the CoS

I am stating and arguing my own beliefs, as are you, while at the same time stating that there are going to be many different beliefs among these protests and that it is no reason to leave.

It tears me up that you're making a big deal of something ridiculous that you should have realized in the beginning.

I am speaking figuratively, you are taking it literally. Therein lies a major problem here

I don't think I can do a better job of making you look insane than what you are doing to yourself with every post you make :fuckyou:

Thank you.



Anyone have a youtube video of the arguement with the bullbaiter? I'd like to see it

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

YouTube - Scientologist Bull-baiter at Edmonton 4/12 Protest.

I think we went into a lower ethics condition with him after this =(.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

I got a few of the dates wrong, so if anyone has any questions about some of the stuff I said, feel free to ask and I can elaborate.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

Actually that's interesting, a series of miniraids, why not? We could act as a martyr for the cause and just raise awareness for the whole thing.

If we decide to stick to miniraids can we at least do it after the june one, I like dressing up as a pirate.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

A thought occured to me just now. If the anti-moralfags (That apparently never post here) are going to raid the moralfag protest then splitting up is essentially pointless.

Yet if they aren't going to raid the protest then splitting up the protest is essentially pointless because then they wouldn't be doing whatever it is that is causing the split.

I know that I likely won't go if we split the protest because I ain't going alone and my friends don't want to go if it splits because it's "Not effective." Whatever that means. But I'm cool with what is decided either way.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

I still want to know why people believe that the anti-moralfags would want to raid the moralfag protest, because as far as I know noone has made any sort of statement about wanting to do so.

Re: Edmonton, Alberta (Alternate) AKA LORD OF THE FLIES

The monthly protests are effective and have a profound effect. Many people I talked to were somewhat indifferent until I mentioned that we are global in about 100 cities. It's a major selling point for our credibility as informed protesters who are making a difference. Coming after the protest isn't really that productive because generally we leave around the same time that traffic slows down. Getting their early means we are present while people are around and still allows some people to separate themselves from some of the others with differing viewpoints who will show up at 11:00.