E-meters and Narconon: Medical/Legal Help Needed

Discussion in 'Think Tank' started by Pacifist, Jul 16, 2008.

  1. Pacifist Member

    E-meters and Narconon: Medical/Legal Help Needed

    Canadanon here, trying to help you Americanons. Trying not to clutter the E-Meter as a Diagnostic Device thread too much, I'm creating a thread specifically about Narconon and its use of the e-meter.

    First, can anyone confirm if the e-meter is still being used within Narconon? Anyone here worked within Narconon, been "rehabilitated" there, or know somebody who has? There is this mention of the president of Narconon using an e-meter on an addict, published in a cult magazine in 1987. The following image was posted to another thread, but I'm reposting it because it's the most recent piece of evidence I can find, dated as December 31st, 2006.


    On a related note, we all know that Narconon is a front group, but when explaining these to people who are oblivious, it might be useful to print that receipt. Even if in the past, both of these provide powerful visual evidence of Narconon's ties to the cult. A picture says over nine-thousand words.

    Now, back to the main topic. Amerifags, your Food and Drug Administration regulates the e-meter. Each e-meter needs to have a warning label on it stating that it is not a medical device.

    The cult changed the warning label, which is a footbullet that's being discussed in this thread, but for Narconon, the result is the same: they have used, and are possibly still using a snake-oil religious tool in a rehabilitation center. Even though 2006 wasn't long ago, I want confirmation that this is still happening.

    This is where I need the help of American medicalfags and lawfags. If this is indeed still happening, what sort of legal ramifications, if any, would be in store for Narconon? Is this some sort of malpractice? Are we exposing a footbullet or a footcannonball?
    • Like Like x 1
  2. moarxenu Member

    Re: E-meters and Narconon: Medical/Legal Help Needed

    I think this is worth pursuing. There are three issues here: labeling, agreements , and secular use.

    Labels (including those on all literature referring to the gadget) - the current label is out of compliance with the Court label and way out of compliance with the Ruling.

    Agreements - Must be obtained from both people using the e-meter.

    Secular use - Eliminated by the ruling as stated even in the current weak label.

    The E-Meter Initiative, as I am calling it, is doing more research to see if a petition to the FDA would be effective.

    We believe that secular use violation, enforced by the government, will eliminate all secular use of e-meters, which includes all public stress tests, and perhaps in org tests as well. It certainly includes the secular use of Narconon and another other front groups. I wonder if it is used in New Era living?

    This is a footcannonball. Legal action has to await the research mentioned above. However, Anon is free right nao to use all this info for internet guerilla activism and street raiding.

    We need to do careful research on the e-meter practice of Narconon. That will bolster a case to the FDA and provide ammo for raids on Narconon facilities.

    Here's research that occurs we need to do.

    1. Collect more internal dox: your find is excellent. It is not a receipt. It's better. It a fixed asset schedule from their balance sheet. Do you have the whole thing?

    2. Collect all the literature we can find the mentions e-meters.

    3. Post on all the xsci boards requests for sharing their knowledge and experience with e-meter use in Narconon and answering questions we have.

    Right now I am tied up with the E-meter Initiative. Why don't you post on the xsci boards?
  3. Pacifist Member

    Re: E-meters and Narconon: Medical/Legal Help Needed

    Excellent, thank you for your input. I'll see what other dirt I can dig up.

    I truly hate shit like Narconon and Crimanon. They prey on the vulnerable, taking their money in exchange for quack medicine and cult indoctrination. These are people just trying to get on the straight and narrow, and the last thing they need is this vulture cult circling them. I want to see Narconon's ass handed to it. Though this isn't targeted specifically at my country, America is the homeland of this cult. A win anywhere is a win everywhere, especially if it's as potentially massive is this.

    If anyone else has any information, help us out.
  4. Pacifist Member

    Re: E-meters and Narconon: Medical/Legal Help Needed

    Bingo. The e-meter is listed on page 33.

    Edit: Downtown Medical has been brought to my attention by another Anon. It looks like they've been selling their snake-oil bullshit to people who suffered smoke inhalation during the 9/11 attack, much like Narconon. New Yorkanons, you guys in particular should be interested in this, as it's located at 139 Fulton Street in New York City. I could use some NYC harpoons. Can anyone confirm if this place uses the e-meter as well? If so, it too will be a target for this specific operation.
  5. moarxenu Member

  6. peterstorm Member

    Re: E-meters and Narconon: Medical/Legal Help Needed

    What can be done about this in Canada? Our health minister has said an investigation on Narconon was going on in Quebec. And a documentary on TV is due this fall. Do you have some documents to share (from Health Canada or else)? If you need Canadanons to send complaints to Health Canada, let us know and we will spread the word. And for any other operations for that matter. You can visit us at We speak english.

    • Like Like x 1
  7. xenubarb Member

    In the US the emeter is considered a "medical device." The FDA has ruled that it doesn't do anything and is only to be used for 'pastoral counseling' within the Scientology religion.

    So, is Narconon part of the Scientology religion or not? ;)
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Anonymous Member

    No, it's a religious artifact.
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Intelligence Member

    Yes, I can confirm that on or about April 2009 an E-Meter was being used on a Grad Student who
    was on staff at NN TR. There was a huge FLAP over this and the auditing session with this E-Meter
    was moved off the NN TR premises to the NN Staff Apt complex down the road.

    E-Meter auditing did continue at NN TR but only with C/S staff doing self auding as far as I know.

    Interesting to note for squashing the 'Secular' from 'Religious is the following statement:

    John Powers in Scientology's Published Service Completion Lists

    The following 6 individual completions for John Powers appear in official Scientology publications:
    John Powers HANDLING THE DANGEROUS ENVIRONMENT COURSE Celebrity 16 1983-06-01
    John Powers LEVEL A Auditor 226 1989-07-01
    John Powers HDA Celebrity 238 1990-08-01
    John Powers LEVEL B Source 75 1991-06-01
    John Powers PTS/SP COURSE PART ONE Source 75 1991-06-01
    John Powers VOLUNTEER MINISTER COURSE Auditor 303 2002-12-01

    __ 4puv5l.jpg _______________________________________________________________

    Will post more Dox on a new Thread ... hopefully later today.

    • Like Like x 3
  10. Intelligence Member

    Perhaps I should start a more up to date Thread, but will put it here for now ...

    March 1, 2015 by Cult Examiner, David Love: "I closed my eyes and thought happy thoughts. In my case I visualized my laughing and giggling on the beach. Also, if you have no "true guilt" about what they ask and can tune it out by happy thoughts then the needle will float and at that point they have to accept it as truthful,” said one ex-Scientologist. -- "Another ex-Scientologist Robert Kaufman, wrote, “I walk out into the cold Manhattan night. The streets of the wog world still look strange. They may look strange for a while. But I'm over my recent delusions. Truth exists elsewise in simpler things - to be fully human, not "superhuman." To be with life as it is.”


    Today, March 1, 2015, ex-Scientology members talked to the Examiner about how they ‘beat’ the E-Meterreligious artifact, a crude lie detector machine that is used in expensive Scientology auditing sessions. Most of the Scientology concepts associated with the "E-meter" and its use are regarded by the scientific and medical communities as pseudoscience, and the E-meter has never been subject to clinical trials. And being such a crude machine, it can be beat.


    An email dated, Aug 1995, Diane Richardson, a Report on How Narconon Works, confirms the intimate marriage between Scientology and Narconon that states, “It was very ambiguous to us, due to conflicting statements, exactly how the E-meter auditing and the Post-Basic Narconon courses related. It seemed clear enough, however, that the E-meter was routinely used in many if not all of the courses and it was implied that this device was used at least occasionally in the Basic Narconon Communication Course.”

    • Like Like x 3
  11. Quentinanon Member

    I believe possession of drug paraphenilia constitutes a criminal offense in many jurisdictions.
    Look at the photo on the right. The glass pipe looks like it contains drug residue.
    • Like Like x 3
  12. Intelligence Member

    Hey', we had Heroin, Powder Cocaine, Crack, Pot, and Alcohol at NN TR for Students who were
    finished their Program and ready to leave. It was not forced, but each Student had a choice to do
    the 'REACH and WITHDRAW' with real drugs. They picked them up, smelled them, felt them, then
    put them back .... repeat process over and over until FLAT.

    YES, I reported to authorities and NN TR stopped doing it. But they could have and should have
    been charged with having the drugs illegally at the Center.

    I refused to do it but I believe Rob Piro mentions it in his Narconon book he published.


    • Like Like x 2
  13. Quentinanon Member

    Total quack process. Scilons are fucking clueless about addiction.
    • Like Like x 3
  14. Intelligence Member

    I didn't put this in the article because the Examiner would have smacked my hand even harder - LOL.

    However, let's DEBUNK the 'E-Meter is a Religious Artifact' BS ... it's nothing of the sort.

    In FACT, it was designed for Hubbies friends, the Psychs for psychoanalysis, which is
    anathema to Scientologists!:rolleyes:




    LOS ANGELES--Actor John Travolta was rushed to UCLA Medical Center Monday with a near-fatal tone-scale reading of 0.5, or "grief."
    Travolta, who has since been upgraded to 2.5, or "boredom," was quickly revived by emergency-room technicians, attending physician Stephen Citarella said.
    • Like Like x 2
  15. Quentinanon Member

    I think Hubbard picked the term "religious artifact" out of his ass. He knew Mathison and used the emeter as his gimmick when mental health professionals mostly had no interest in it. They were interested in their clients/patients and how they looked, what they said, how they felt. Hubbard just could not connect with other human beings on an empathetic level, so he wanted an electronic box to give him information. An ohm meter may be the closest electronic device to an emeter, but the ouija board is closest to an emeter in giving factual information.
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Intelligence Member

    The Examiner story 'Scientology E-Meter victims tell how they beat the cult’s lie detector'
    I received comments on Forums that were indeed, interesting. Some were not too pleased with the story, others liked it. You can guess who didn't like it?

    After some more digging today, I came across this that I had never seen or heard of before. Is this for real? ::

    This is an excerpt from one of the secret documents that Anonymous acquired, and it shows how batshit insane Scientologist moms are:

    If you want to control your child, simply break him into complete apathy and he'll be as obedient as any hypnotized half-wit. If you want to know how to control him, get a book on dog training, name the child Rex and teach him first to "fetch" and then to "sit up" and then to bark for his food. You can train a child that way. Sure you can. But it's your hard luck if he turns out to be a blood-letter. Only don't be half-hearted about it. Simply TRAIN him. "Speak, Roger!" "Lie down!" "Roll over!" Of course, you'll have a hard time of it. This - a slight oversight - is a human being. You'd better charge right in and do what you can to break him into apathy quickly. A club is best. Tying him in a closet without food for a few days is fairly successful. The best recommended tactic, however, is simply to use a straight jacket and muffs on him until he is docile and imbecilic. I'm warning you that it's going to be tough; it will be tough because Man became king of the beasts only because he couldn't as a species be licked. He doesn't easily go into an obedient apathy like dogs do. Men own dogs because men are self-determined and dogs aren't.
    —Official church documents

    If this ^^ is for real, is there a actual LRH document for reference?

    • Like Like x 1
  17. Anonymous Member

    ^^^ ED is a for-real site, noted for its satire and invective.
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Intelligence Member

  19. Intelligence Member

    Thanks, just received info from a Veteran IAS member about this ^^^

    It's out of context tho. It's in Child Dianetics book. I believe he was talking about how palavoch (spelling wrong) behavior trained dogs and that you could train a child the same way. Sick stuff. I'll see if I can find the complete chapter.


    How to Live with Children

    The main problem with children is how to live with them. The adult is the problem in child raising, not the child. A good, stable adult with love and tolerance in his heart is about the best therapy a child can have.
    The main consideration in raising children is the problem of training them without breaking them. You want to raise your child in such a way that you don’t have to control him, so that he will be in full possession of himself at all times. Upon that depends his good behavior, his health, his sanity.

    Children are not dogs. They can’t be trained like dogs are trained. They are not controllable items. They are, and let’s not overlook the point, men and women. A child is not a special species of animal distinct from man. A child is a man or a woman who has not attained full growth.

    Any law which applies to the behavior of men and women applies to children.

    How would you like to be pulled and hauled and ordered about and restrained from doing whatever you wanted to do? You’d resent it. The only reason a child “doesn’t” resent it is because he’s small. You’d half murder somebody who treated you, an adult, with the orders, contradiction and disrespect given to the average child. The child doesn’t strike back because he isn’t big enough. He gets your floor muddy, interrupts your nap, destroys the peace of the home instead. If he had equality with you in the matter of rights, he’d not ask for this “revenge.” This “revenge” is standard child behavior.

    Self-determinism is that state of being wherein the individual can or cannot be controlled by his environment according to his own choice. In that state the individual has self-confidence in his control of the material universe and other people.
    A child has a right to his self-determinism. You say that if he is not restrained from pulling things down on himself, running into the road, etc., etc., he’ll be hurt. What are you as an adult doing to make that child live in rooms or an environment where he can be hurt? The fault is yours, not his, if he breaks things.

    The sweetness and love of a child is preserved only so long as he can exert his own self-determinism. You interrupt that and to a degree you interrupt his life.

    There are only two reasons why a child’s right to decide for himself has to be interrupted – the fragility and danger of his environment and you. For you work out on him the things that were done to you, regardless of what you think.
    There are two courses you can take. Give the child leeway in an environment he can’t hurt and which can’t badly hurt him and which doesn’t greatly restrict his own space and time. And through Scientology services, you can clean up your own aberrations (departures from rational thought or behavior) to a point where your tolerance equals or surpasses his lack of education in how to please you. When you give a child something, it’s his. It’s not still yours. Clothes, toys, quarters, what he has been given, must remain under his exclusive control. So he tears up his shirt, wrecks his bed, breaks his fire engine. It’s none of your business. How would you like to have somebody give you a Christmas present and then tell you, day after day thereafter, what you are to do with it and even punish you if you failed to care for it the way the donor thinks you should? You’d wreck that donor and ruin that present. You know you would. The child wrecks your nerves when you do it to him. That’s revenge. He cries. He pesters you. He breaks your things. He “accidentally” spills his milk. And he wrecks the possession on purpose about which he is so often cautioned. Why? Because he is fighting for his own self-determinism, his own right to own and make his weight felt on his environment. This “possession” is another channel by which he can be controlled. So he has to fight the possession and the controller.

    Doubtless, some people were so poorly raised they think control is the ne plus ultra (highest point) of child raising. If you want to control your child, simply break him into complete apathy and he’ll be as obedient as any hypnotized half-wit. If you want to know how to control him, get a book on dog training, name the child Rex and teach him first to “fetch” and then to “sit up” and then to bark for his food. You can train a child that way. Sure you can. But it’s your hard luck if he turns out to be a blood-letter (a person who causes bloodshed). Of course, you’ll have a hard time of it. This is a human being. It will be tough because man became king of the beasts only because he couldn’t as a species be licked. He doesn’t easily go into an obedient apathy like dogs do. Men own dogs because men are self-determined and dogs aren’t.
    The reason people started to confuse children with dogs and started training children with force lies in the field of psychology. The psychologist worked on “principles” as follows:

    “Man is evil.” “Man must be trained into being a social animal.” “Man must adapt to his environment.”
    As these postulates aren’t true, psychology doesn’t work. And if you ever saw a wreck, it’s the child of a professional psychologist. Attention to the world around us instead of to texts somebody thought up after reading somebody’s texts, shows us the fallacy of these postulates.

    The actuality is quite opposite the previous beliefs.

    The truth lies in this direction:
    Man is basically good. Only by severe aberration can man be made evil. Severe training drives him into nonsociability. Man must retain his personal ability to adapt his environment to him to remain sane. A man is as sane and safe as he is self-determined.

    In raising your child, you must avoid “training” him into a social animal. Your child begins by being more sociable, more dignified than you are. In a relatively short time the treatment he gets so checks him that he revolts. This revolt can be intensified until he is a terror to have around. He will be noisy, thoughtless, careless of possessions, unclean-anything, in short, which will annoy you. Train him, control him and you’ll lose his love. You’ve lost the child forever that you seek to control and own.

    Permit a child to sit on your lap. He’ll sit there, contented. Now put your arms around him and constrain him to sit there. Do this even though he wasn’t even trying to leave. Instantly, he’ll squirm. He’ll fight to get away from you. He’ll get angry. He’ll cry. Recall now, he was happy before you started to hold him.

    Your efforts to mold, train, control this child in general react on him exactly like trying to hold him on your lap.
    Of course you will have difficulty if this child of yours has already been trained, controlled, ordered about, denied his own possessions. In mid-flight, you change your tactics. You try to give him his freedom. He’s so suspicious of you he will have a terrible time trying to adjust. The transition period will be terrible. But at the end of it you’ll have a well-ordered, well-trained, social child, thoughtful of you and, very important to you, a child who loves you.

    The child who is under constraint, shepherded, handled, controlled, has a very bad anxiety postulated. His parents are survival entities. They mean food, clothing, shelter, affection. This means he wants to be near them. He wants to love them, naturally, being their child. But on the other hand his parents are nonsurvival entities. His whole being and life depend upon his rights to use his own decision about his movements and his possessions and his body. Parents seek to interrupt this out of the mistaken idea that a child is an idiot who won’t learn unless “controlled.” So he has to fight shy, to fight against, to annoy and harass an enemy. A child needs his parents' support A child needs his parents’ support for many aspects of his survival. But if they also severely interrupt his decisions of his life he is given a huge problem which can cause him much worry. Here is anxiety. “I love them dearly. I also need them. But they mean an interruption of my ability, my mind, my potential life. What am I going to do about my parents? I can’t live with them. I can’t live without them. Oh, dear, oh, dear!” There he sits running this problem through his head. That problem, that anxiety, will be with him for eighteen years, more or less. And it will half wreck his life. Freedom for the child means freedom for you. Abandoning the possessions of the child to their fate means eventual safety for the child’s possessions.

    What terrible willpower is demanded of a parent not to give constant streams of directions to a child! What agony to watch his possessions going to ruin! What upset to refuse to order his time and space! But it has to be done if you want a well, a happy, a careful, a beautiful, an intelligent child.

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  20. Quentinanon Member

    The image on the right has been cropped to remove the paraphenilia from the photo.
    That cuts out important context.

    • Like Like x 3
  21. Intelligence Member

    Sorry about the Off-Topic derails here ... Me is BADS for that.

    I was thinking about the COS/Sea Org kids and this Infosect story landed in my Email.

    So, we pushed something more out about the Story here:

    MARCH 2, 2015; by David Love (Excerpts)

    Candace Conti explains that there is a “2 Witness” rule that if anyone accuses an adult of abuse, there must be a second witness or the accuser is severely punished for the accusation. Like “shunning” is in some religions or “disconnection” in Scientology, the punishment for a “false accuser” child Jehovah's Witnesses, is called “dis-fellowshipping” – “it was horrifying. Even your parents would have to ignore you. It was more terrifying than Jonathan,” stated Conti.
    In a YouTube video: “Jehovah's Witnesses Threatening Children with Death” - Lloyd Evans tells the David Pakman Show that, “Scientology only has about 50,000 members, whereas the Jehovah's Witnesses organization has about 8 million. It’s like a comedy show when you look into some of the beliefs of what Scientologists adhere to. What we have with the Jehovah's Witnesses is rampant child abuse, rampant “shunning” similar to Scientology, but it’s far more widespread simply because there is far more Jehovah's Witnesses.”
    On Nov. 5, 2014, Canada takes a similar stand against “religious practices” and the Canada Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms: “Violence against women and girls is a heinous abuse of human rights and has no place in Canadian society. The Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices Act sends a clear message that any form of harmful cultural practices is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. I am proud that our Government continues to take strong action to ensure the equality, safety and security of women and girls in communities all across Canada.” - Rona Ambrose, Canada’s Health Minister.

    MORE at above LINK ^^^
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