Draw Muhamed day megathread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Anonymous, May 10, 2010.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

  2. Anonymous Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

  3. Anonymous Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

  4. Anonymous Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

  5. Anonymous Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    Hey noob. It's called a Straw Man argument.

    Here's your sooper sekrit technique:
    You = Big bad debater

    Islam = Straw Man religion whose Sacred book requires its followers to be fundamentalists.

    Big Bad Debater Man can knock down the Straw Man easily, as long as he can convince everyone that the Straw Man is actually Islam.

    You are totally arrogant and offensive when you, a non-Muslim, presume that you have the spiritual, moral, or intellectual authority to define for 1 billion Muslims exactly what their religion is for them -- and to define it as a 100% fundamentalist or not-at-all Faith goes a big leap further up the offensive scale.

    All religion is open to interpretation, even those whose Books claim to be the Supreme Authority on All Things. People can still call themselves adherents of a faith, ANY faith, while rejecting those parts of said faith that are inapplicable, unjust, illogical, wrong, immoral, etc.

    The freedom of religion includes the freedom to decide on one's own idealized and individual interpretation of their faith.
  6. Anonymous Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

  7. Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    Well I guess I'll just have to live with me being totally arrogant then, since I still believe what I stated before. I can live with that.

    It's not a straw man argument, since that would be putting up a straw man and attacking that. I have not done so.

    I am attacking fundamentalist Islam, which I believe, as explained above, is the only true form of Islam.

    This means that since Islam (from my POV) can only be fundamentalist, then I am not attacking a straw man, rather I am attacking the very core.

    If you do not think the Qu'ran is gods infallible, verbatim, timeless moral guideline to man, as described above, then I do not think of you as a muslim, and I doubt most muslims will either.

    So you are right in stating that my critique is targeted at people who define themselves as muslims, and regard the Qu'ran as gods infallible, verbatim, timeless moral guideline to man, as described above. But based on my previous arguments, that will include all (real) muslims.

    You may see this as arrogant, but to be honest, I don't give a fuck.

    P.s. I really hope that you are right, and that muslims do not regard the Qu'ran as gods infallible, verbatim, timeless moral guideline to man, as described above, but rather gods words, filtered through people, because then a lot of the problems with Islam would cease to be. But I do not believe this to be true.
  8. Anonymous Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    The Quran isn't really the problem so much as the early 'scholarly works' that sprung up around it. I also understand that being Muslim requires the Quran to be seen as immutable, and something very close to infallible, likewise being Jewish requires the Torah to been seen as immutable and 'true'.

    But I believe the term 'fundamentalist' wrt Islam properly relates to those who rigidly adhere (or, purport themselves to) to the Islamist works that came afterwards. I have known people who would say that the Quran is 'perfect', while still being extremely moderate / western.

    But then - holding two contradictory opinions is not actually difficult for most humans.
  9. Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    I tried to limit myself to the Qu'ran in my argument, since Hadith, and Tafsir is a whole other story alltogether.

    Using the Qu'ran alone, I could attack Islam as such, and avoid attacking a strawman, as I was accused of earlier.

    I don't really know what to say about that, other than since I argue from, or strive to argue from, a logical perspective, then, to me, such a thing would be Haram(forbidden) ;)
  10. webkilla Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    this whole deal is blown out of proportion. not on our end, but the reason that muslims use to excuse their rage against the... cartoonists :p

    basically, muslim hadith (not koran, but similar, just like jes have both Torah and talmud) state that you shouldn't depict the prophet, since that might result in the prophet getting more attention than allah. thats it.

    now, considering how the muslim reactions to this have been... they have failed that.

    they should not have to worry about non-believers worshiping their prophet, now should they? or are they suddenly going to because of all the cartoons being made?


    thus, out-of-context interpretations of muslim doctrine = epic fail

    i find it that as a christian man, a non-practicing one mind you, that it is very embarrassing I seem to understand this better than so many muslims.

    also, my pic:

  11. Hicks Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread


    Some quotes from a muslim forum I visited recently:

    And it goes on, there are varied points of views of course but it's not very threatening....

    You should go visit them there: IB Islamic Forum they are quite nice if you can hold an intelligent debate.
  12. Anonymous Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    Style points for contradicting yourself in the very next sentence.
  13. Tuatha Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    I don't hate the Muslims I even get their not liking Idol worship.

    what I don't get nor will I respond to are the threats of violence that happen when someone who does not subscribe to their beliefs creates an image that they see as Idolotry. davidmuhammadhoff.jpg mabeach.jpg thepassionofmelhammad.jpg lrmm.jpg
  14. Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    Aww, you're trolling aren't you? Or just not very bright.

    I don't give a fuck if I come across as arrogant or intolerant.


    I hope you are right in saying that muslims muslims do not regard the Qu'ran as gods infallible, verbatim, timeless moral guideline to man, as described above.

    These two are not conflicting statements.

    You made me make a little smug giggle.

    Please insert coins and try again.
  15. Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    I don't see how this contradicts with what anything stated above?

    But thanks for the link.
  16. Hicks Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    As you seem to see a lot of things in black and white, I thought a lil bit of grey area could be a learning experience for you, nothing more :)

    I'm an atheist with muslim friends, crazy world eh?

    P.S: I sound like a pretentious douche on purpose.
  17. Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    That's nice, dear ;)
  18. Anonymous Member

    Re: Everybody Draw Muhammad Day: May 20th

    The scientific method and a good deal of maths were invented by muslims. Dumbfuck.

    Go back to school :)
  19. AnonKat Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

  20. veravendetter Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    this furfags guy sure hates muslims. lol
  21. Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    I hope not.

    Hate implies irrational feelings towards a subject, I do believe my arguments are rational. Once you hate something, you cease to be able to rationally debate it.

    I strongly oppose Islam, and I actively do my best to counter it, just like we all do here in regards to Scientology.

    Hate is reserved for personal issues, and best avoided alltogether.

    It is also important to make the distinction between Muslims and Islam. Remember the slogan "Hate Scientology, Love Scientologists?" Well that would ideally apply to this situation as well.

    They are human beings, just like anyone, who just, much like Scientologists, are caught in a web of contradictionary bullshit, and most of them where born into it, with no say in the matter.
  22. Anonymous Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    Maybe you should ask some Muslims? There are many sects of Islam, some of which are more liberal, like there are many sects of Christianity.

    QF motherfucking T

    YouTube - Family Guy - Like Arguing with a Mule
  23. Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    Are there any sects willing to say that the Qu'ran is flawed, and that certain parts should be ignored? I have yet to encounter them...

    If so, I'd love to hear the reasoning behind it.

    I've met "muslims" who were openly ignoring parts of it, but I regard them as good people and bad muslims, and they had no islamic reasoning behind doing what they did.

    I think they chose to ignore parts of it, because it made their lives very much more liveable, and good on them for that.

    If you have any islamic reasoning for ignoring every single objectionable Sura, then I'd love to hear it. Maybe it should be spread around then, as a weapon against the fundamentalism I, as of yet, see as a neccesary part of Islam.

    I love being proven wrong and learning new things.
  24. themadhair Member

    Re: Everybody Draw Muhammad Day: May 20th

    You do realise that a variant on this argument is often used by creationists? I.e. – lots of great scientists, like Newton, were creationists?

    See why the argument is flawed?
  25. Anonymous Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    Muhammed was the most perfect example of how life should be lived. Muhammed fucked a 9 year old girl. Therefore Muslims believe it is acceptable to fuck 9 year old girls. Muslims = pedobears.
  26. RandoAnon Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

  27. Anonymous Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    Visit Turkey some time. It is secular.

    As for Islamic reasoning behind openly ignoring parts of the Qu'ran, it goes like this:

    There are parts of the Bible, and parts of the Qu'ran, that promote love, understanding, and tolerance. I will leave it to you to find the Suras, since you are such an expert, and I am not a Muslim.

    Any particular follower may decide that the messages promoting love, understanding, and tolerance supersede the bullshit parts. Any particular follower may decide that the laws of civilized society supersede the bullshit parts. Including the parts that say "An eye for an eye," "Sodomy is a sin," and "Death to the infidel."

    We call these followers "Moderates."

    A Moderate may denounce what he sees as sinful, but he'll stop at certain limits proscribed by his faith (tolerance and understanding) and civil society's common laws (death threats, violence, speech promoting violence or crime, etc.) A Moderate also recognizes that he has no power over laws in lands that are not his own. A Moderate might choose to live in a society whose laws agree with his oppressive beliefs, but he doesn't get riled up over blasphemies and Infidel behavior that occur in OTHER COUNTRIES.

    Learn a little about Turkey, a Muslim country, and attitudes there re: Western freedoms. The Young Turks video posted earlier ITT is a good start. The guy in the video is no longer a Muslim, but his opinion is echoed by many Muslim Turks, I am certain.

    (The tl;dw for the video is this: former Muslim guy says "Islam and its directives are for you, Muslim, not for non-Muslims. You don't get mad at non-Muslims for drawing Mohammad. You, Muslim, don't draw Mohammad, but it is not for you to dictate or even give a fuck what a non-Muslim can draw.")
  28. Anonymous Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    Srszly? You want to put yourself at opposition to >1,000,000,000 people?
  29. RandoAnon Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    The lulz would be earth rattling!
  30. Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    I think I have already answered this.

    It all boils down to:

    Bad muslim and (potentially) good person
    Good person and bad muslim

    If you are a muslim, there are no bullshit parts of the Qu'ran. I think it is extremely ignorant of you to say that.

    I know Turkish history (I KNOW PSYCHIATRY, YOU DON'T!) with Atatürk and secularism, (oh and an armenian genocide to boot, but let's not go there) but I dare argue that they have achieved all that despite Islam, and not because of it.

    To be able to turn the Qu'ran into a book of love is like making L Ron Hubbard a great writer. It takes a lot of fucking denial or a huge apologist.
  31. Anonymous Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    No, I don't see how that makes the argument flawed, it's still true.... No matter how much you hate it.

    It's just a way to put things into perspective for people who think that religious based people can't accomplish anything or never contributed.
  32. Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    I want to set myself up against infinite amounts of people if I think I am right, and able to say so.

    The amount of people you put yourself in opposition to, should not have any influence on what you say. Ideally.

    Just because I am a furfag does not mean I am a sheep.

  33. Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    Can I be the first to Godwin this branch of the discussion with some super nazi inventions, or does someone else have dibs on that?
  34. Anonymous Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    "Good" and "Bad" are terrible terms to be trying to apply in a debate such as this. I believe it has been pointed out earlier that you have no authority to say what a "good" Muslim is, or to interpret Islam with final authority for >1,000,000,000 people.

    Maybe you need to go find some real Muslims to debate about whether the Qu'ran's message is ultimately about love, instead of spewing on about it here, hmm? I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people who'd disagree with you, no matter how emphatically you say it or whatever cute simile you use.
  35. Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    Maybe I should decide for myself what to do? Yeah, I think I will go with that.

    Good and bad are not moral absolutes in the limits of this my argument, but only good or bad as in being faithfull to gods words or not.

    I have the only authority I need in a debate: The weight of my arguments. Feel free to judge.

    If you think I need to be authorized to voice my opinion on a subject I have actually done some studying into, then you can go fuck yourself, with my permission.

    There are parts of the Qu'ran that it would take some scifag-level apologism or denial to interprete away, but I'm beginning to have faith in you that you can achieve that super level of ignorance.
  36. Anonymous Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    "When ten men tell you you're drunk, you'd better lie down."-Henry Fonda, Battle Of The Bulge.
  37. themadhair Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    You miss the point. This isn't about people, it is about an ideology that appears to have the effect of being a scientific retardant on its followers. Imagine a scenario with two equally intelligent populations, one Islamic and the other non-Islamic, and ask the question of which would experience more scientific discovery.

    We both know the history, but if you want to try arguing that it was a religious ideology that contributed knowledge, as opposed to individuals who happened to be members of that given ideology, then I doubt you will get very far. Sometimes I really wonder how it was even possible to have derived any such knowledge with an ideology like Islam. That may seem harsh, but when I encounter situations where a Muslim will try to argue that an ‘earthquake’ is different from a ‘quake of the earth’ solely to defend the accuracy of one obscure line in the koran then I really have to wonder.
  38. Anonymous Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    On the subject of 'moderate' mussies, just try telling them that parts of the quran are bullshit and should be ignored. Go ahead I fucking dare you, see how 'moderately' they behave after you have insulted their prophet.
  39. Anonymous Member

    Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    If you are going to continue publicly denying Moderate Muslims their faith or the right to call themselves good Muslims, I'm going to continue to challenge your authority when you try to speak on the subject.

    Deal with it.
  40. Re: Draw Muhamed day megathread

    "When running out of arguments, throw in a random quote, to make yourself look all clever."
    -FurFagsWorldWide, WWP


    Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
    Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

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