Double Helix Water

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Anonymous, Feb 25, 2010.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Double Helix Water

    David Gann is a Scientologist. Here is his FB which lists the Double Helix Water website and also shows he is a member of "Scientology: the fastest growing religion in the world."

    At the bottom of the DHW website it says that they have double helix water available which is a "Certified Nemenhah Sacrament". Here is the wiki for the Nemenah band. The Nemenah Band sounds like another cult and it looks like David is exploiting it or it's members.

    I wouldn't normally target a random Scilon, but this smells like a scam.

    Additional info about David Gann for which I have no DOX, but other exes from around the LA area might remember: He also had a company in the mid 90s that made some sort of product that you would put in your car's intake to "improve millage." I can't remember what the product was specifically, but I'm pretty sure it was a millage booster thing. I believe it sold in one or more of the major LA area auto-part chain stores.
  2. Anonymous Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    Would this be the Bio Performance pill? A scam--you put the little green pill in your gas tank and supposedly it improved mileage--but actually, it was just mothballs. I think it was sold in an MLM.
  3. Anonymous Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    Op here. Maybe. The name doesn't ring a bell, but it might have been chemical angle is familiar. Either that or it was some sort of "vortex" thing which "makes the oxygen and fuel mix better" or something.
  4. RaddaRadda Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    People join the Nemenhah for a nominal fee so they can refuse to provide medical to their children on "religious grounds"

    Here is one example
  5. Anonymous Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    The pills are probably a so called oxygenation product. I think the other product was similar to this: TORNADO Air Management Systems :: More Power! More Mileage!
  6. subgenius Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    Double Helix Water: what a scam!
    Everyone knows Single Helix Water is the real thing.
  7. LocalSP Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    Ah but don't forget the miracle properties of the very rare quadruple helix water.
  8. PodPeople Member

  9. Optimisticate Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    But is it a right handed or left handed helix?
  10. incog712 Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    That would depend on which side of the glass you are facing. I don't know from DoubleHelix water but I'm guessing these helix's are comprised of "biophotons". They're made up of super invisible light, so we may never really know.

    Wonky Water Bunk
  11. eddieVroom Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    ATEG. This was about the same time as Tradenet's Blue Laundry Balls, with ATG's magic water.

    American Technologies Group: What Are They Up To?

    edit: science geeks will just love the BASER
  12. Anonymous Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    The better gas milage scam is actually in a thread on here already about a year ago.

    Some people were pushing this HHO gas to improve your milage... And it does kinda.. You can make a pretty sweet welder torch with it that has a flame you can put your hand in but it doesn't get hot, but will melt metal.

    Anyways, it is mostly a scam because idiots pretend it is "free energy" and I believe some scilons used to be involved with this back a few years ago when it was a fad.

    It is real stuff, the free'd hydrogen burns cleaner and the extra oxygen improves milage. How it works is that you are using your alternator to split water into H2 and O2 and you blow that into your intake.. In reality it is a net loss probably.. It might improve milage like 2%, but at the cost of extra $400 of crap you put in your car and having to refill the water, and custom oxygen sensor. So the money you save in gasoline is canceled out by the wear on the alternator, belts, and extra electrolysis you add to your engine.

    This shit is real in that truckers install these mega systems and it appears to work and be slightly cost effective.

    It's known as Brown's Gas and they were some of the first welding systems. You can build your own and they are a novelty, just go find some monster transformers. The original snake salesmen were the Water4Gas people.

    Google HHO Fuel Cell or Brown's Gas for some history. Truckers seem to be the only place where ecomony of scales makes sense
  13. Anonymous Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    The video on the website is long but has some gems.

    The discovery of "stable water clusters" changes pretty much all of science and anything having to do with water. Agriculture, laundry, fuel, etc are all effected by this amazing discovery.
    And Dr. Lo claims that he has explained acupuncture and ancient Chinese medicine using his "stable water clusters".
  14. andonanon Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    I thought a stable water cluster was called ice.
  15. Anonymous Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    Apparently now they can achieve that at room temperature. Where have you been? Double helix water FTW!
  16. xeoii Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    While I'm sure it's all well and fun to link someone's beliefs into scientific discovery, I must respectfully suggest an alternative approach. Throughout history, scientists, artists, philosophers, military leaders, etc. have been black listed not by the merit of their work, but by the merit of their beliefs, gender, sexual preference, race, and wealth. Had this always stayed true, where would mankind be?

    The merits of Gann's work is not founded on his religious beliefs. Far from it. While it's fun to poke at the religion, the findings presented are serious and to ignore them because of a personal vendetta is ignorant at best and self-destructive at worst. Where are the personal attacks on other scientists that have discovered other phases of water? Let's hunt down, tar and feather the discoverers of these other forms too!

    File:WaterPhaseDiagram.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Or do we not because they happen to go to the same church as us?

    I am a scientist, I believe in God, and I believe in the power of Man to do good and bad. Today, I'm only validating in these beliefs. So allow me to take the time of day to clarify for you gentlemen.

    To answer one post again, ice is a laymen term for water crystals. Carbon also has multiple crystal forms. Did you know that we still do not know everything about water even though it's one of the most abundant chemicals on the planet? Stable water clusters is just another form of ice. Given high pressures, ice can be formed at room temperatures. Given the stability of that ice(s), it is possible to reach stability at room temperature. Going back to carbon, diamond is actually less stable than coal, but the transition energy barrier necessary to convert back is so high that diamond stays as is.

    To answer a few other posts, Gann and his work at ATG was not only a great example of potential scams, but an example of potential hatred. His work on the vortex was sound and there is data behind it. Anyone wanting a perfect machine is dismissing the whole mechanical industry. There will always be data to the contrary. Now, let's combine that contrary data with folks that share a mutual angst against scientology and being a team player. Gann was targeted due to his beliefs and people with enough capacity for hate began to sabotage their work. He was asked to leave because of the target placed on his back, one that any religion has had. Funny how history repeats?

    The laundry ball was a collaboration with a sketchy company. If Gann's guilty of anything, it's of trusting someone. The company was told that the laundry balls would not work and that a detergent or chemical was the only viable alternative. The company imploded and took Gann with them. Of course this is a simple issue that anyone can understand, but let's amp it up with his religious background and voila: blow-out-of-proportion scandal with Gann as the scapegoat. Gann is just like any other business man who made a bad call, but thanks to his choice of religion, he is again accosted.

    Next answer: The bit about free energy is, I agree, a misnomer. In the context they are referring to is that there is water and oxygen and hydrogen in the air around us, it is nearly "free" to gather compared to drilling and mining. It would have less environmental impact as well. This is the closest to free that almost any business can get. Electrolysis was always considered as an energy replacement, but is expensive and not realistic. It isn't a scam. You can always sit there and yell at this product too: Fuel Cell Car Kit

    Just like any discovery, the potential effects are there. This charged form of ice can assist in cleaner burning by changing carbon chain configurations, making the combustion process more thorough. It can possibly help in cleaning dirtied water. Being water itself, we may potentially have a self-cleaning water system that can be cheap and accessible to all parts of the world. Acupuncture invests it's foundations in the idea of meridians, or electrical circuits of the body. Anyone that would protest that concept need only drink a gallon of distilled water under a minute. Our body relies on electrolytes to operate organs like the heart. Our body is electrical in a lot of respects and acupuncture aims to correct vital circuits, if you will. It is simply arrogant to claim we know everything about the body and to shut out all reasonable components. God forbid western medicine isn't the whole picture.

    Ok, maybe double helix water is a funny name. It isn't a scientific term, it's a product name. Take Nike, it's based on the Goddess of Victory... OH NO, another religious concoction! Everyone burn their jogging pants. It's something to catch the attention of consumers. The actual term is ice formed under electrical pressure, or generally stable water cluster. I'm guessing none of you are great scientists, so let me break it down: Science comes up with the legitimate name of something, like ethyl acetate or acetic acid. Because no one understands that (something about the unknown being scary, go figure), we change it to something like nail polish remover or vinegar. Take hydrogen peroxide, we treat it with the utmost concern and handling because of the more official sounding name. It's marketing, people.

    The final point I have to make is with reference to the Nemenhah tribe. Again, you try to dispute this by pointing out the small flaws instead of taking it head on. This tribe allows for religious freedoms (as per mentioned in a previous post to protect choice of medical treatment) as well as medical freedoms. Again, there is a lot of viable medicine outside of the mainstream and many doctors cannot practice this without a very controlled and biased medical system. This tribe allows many doctors to practice under the sovereign status of this tribe, allowing them to save lives that were turned a blind eye by most hospitals. Let's mock the value of life some more?

    In closing, you'll probably poke fun at this post. Some admin may even delete it (which I'll save and repost if necessary). I guess I wanted you guys to know that the cowardice and ignorance shown here is unacceptable. All walks of life preach tolerance to some degree and if you're aiming to destroy others, you haven't followed your teachings well. As a very wise friend once said "I believe in morality, which is doing right regardless of what is told and not religion, which is doing what is told regardless of what is right." I have an email and would entertain any reasonable and civil response, because what this world needs is a legitimate discussion and contribution to that great conversation. What good is a forum like this if all you guys do is agree with each other? Value a better way of life over fruitless self-validation. Thanks for your time.
  17. Anonymous Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    Someone's been dipping into a little too much double helix water
  18. Re: Double Helix Water

    No! Admins! Don't delete this, I beg of you!

  19. Anonymous Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    I was all about to sit here and yell at that product, but then I saw the Sea Monkeys!

    Sea Monkeys are the best.
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    So interesting.
  21. Anonymous Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    what the fuck?
  22. Anonymous Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    OMG that is funny!!! thx!!!
  23. DeathHamster Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

  24. Anonymous Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    If an adherent of a delusional pseudo-science and anti-science cult starts running a classic scam this is hardly the place to make fun of them. Show them a little more respect, right?

    AND there is far too much criticism of Scientology and scams and Scientology's links with scams, going on here.

    Laundry balls were based on REAL data.

    AND, remember, they laughed at Einstein, too.

    So, stop it.

    The chances of Mr Laundry Ball's post being deleted are, I would guess, nil.
  25. Anonymous Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    By the way, Mr Laundry Ball, do you know why no one cares at all about the religion of actual scientists who discover things such as phases of water, but are still willing to deride scam artists?

    That's not an inconsistency. Tell me when you work it out,
  26. Anonymous Member

  27. Ersatz Global Moderator

    Re: Double Helix Water

    I am a Nazi mod and what is this?
  28. Anonymous Member

  29. Anonymous Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    Wasn't this stuff shown on either the Dragon's Den or the Shark Tank? I seem to remember someone hocking something that sounds similar. I also remember this person was promptly laughed at and then criticized for peddling a modern snake oil.
  30. Anonymous Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    great thread necro, THANKS

  31. DeathHamster Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    ATG was a WISE/Scientologist scam. There was another WISE company close to Clearwater, Tradenet, that was into the magic laundry ball scam.

  32. incog712 Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    Your ideas intrigue me and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.
  33. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    Ok, who is this hotty? Gays want to know...
  34. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    Re: Double Helix Water

    I think that is my next door neighbor - Lovaza Warrior. I hate to break it to you, but he is strait and you may not like him if he were gay: He reeks of fish.
  35. Anonymous Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    I will F5 this. Best chance of entertainment tonite IMO.
  36. xeoii Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    SWCs isn't scientology. Gann isn't the only one that's worked on them. Actually, understanding the basic theory behind the work stretches back to the late 80s. French biologist Jacques Benveniste claimed that water maintained a memory or properties of solutes, thus reinforcing homeopathy. Due to the lack of standards and high population of scammers in the field, homeopathy was shunned as a treatment and science supporting it held a harsh stigma. Still, many use it and prefer it. Queen Elizabeth II actually turns to it first.

    The biggest issue is that high dilutions do no follow in line with macroconcentrated solutions. Properties change based on dominate interactions within a solution and previous science labs had difficulty maintaining ultra-pure water ( >18 megaohms), so no one investigated it until the last few decades. Still, Benveniste, who was a well respected scientist, was black-listed as well for suggesting a new theory that wasn't 1) easily repeatable given the technology at the time and 2) contrary to current understandings of solutions.

    Like I mentioned before, Gann and ATG were commissioned to make the laundry balls work by those companies, but the product they wanted wasn't reasonable. ATG pushed for using detergents, but the orders for the laundry balls were already placed and demanded, so they were on a ride they didn't want to be. ATG was unfortunately linked to the laundry ball scam, but was the only company trying to prevent a scam.

    The Shark tank episode that showed a product for pets was a line of pet food with supplements that supposedly improved the lifespan of pets. His statistical analysis was a wash. He claimed that he never saw a pet with cancer and claimed it was because of his food. That was putting the cart in front of the horse.

    I don't anyone who's read that blogpost sees what the guy (who's just another blogger like me, in fact, he's just a vet, not a scientist, so I'd be more qualified as I am a scientist and not biased by current medical dogmas) is doing. The first bit about homeopathy is a misquote. DHW isn't homeopathy, but the science behind it may lend itself to explaining remedies like homeopathy. Homeopathy involves high dilutions, but most practices are not regulated and hence, become scams. That's like saying the inventor of the wheel is the culprit behind Firestone tires blowing up. Any form of knowledge can easily be abused. Answering the medical claims is as simple as avoiding malpractice and pharmaceutical attacks. When Gann was first working on SWCs, they published work on it's ability to reactivate t-cells in blood far more than platinum (which has a medical benefit to reactivating the immune system... 'cept it's poisonous to the body). This was during his time at UCLA, which was backed by pharmaceuticals. Whispers of an effective cancer treatment with no side effects doesn't sit well with pharmaceuticals. Gann's work was buried and he lost rights to it.

    Fast forward to when he gets the rights back. This time, in order to avoid the full force of a whole industry, Gann is marketing it safely, making no medical claims and to keep watchdogs at bay. One can see it as a scam, or as a smart move based on previous experience. In pharmaceuticals, the money isn't in curing cancer... it's in treating symptoms and prolonging death. They could make a quick buck curing it, or make a payoff that'll last a lifetime. It's a shame, but the truth. I'm not saying everyone of them is like that, but a majority is.

    That blog post is only a reiteration of posts on this forum. Don't be blinded by a animal medical degree. SWCs itself is science, chemistry and physics. The effects dip in medicine, but an authority would be someone within the aforementioned fields.

    Needless to say, this work scales far beyond Gann and Lo. People of all walks of life partake in the research found here. Double Helix Water/Stable Water Clusters isn't a trick. Nevertheless, anyone at the forefront of a scientific breakthrough will receive the brunt of criticism. As inventive as science is, it will resist change just as much any person.

    The world is calloused. It is skeptical and with good reason. But to put SWCs in the same group as unbased and inconsistent scams is a mistake. Thanks for the responses... now this is what a forum thread's supposed to look like... well, it's getting there :).
  37. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    Hey xeoii,

    Can you explain this, I attached a battery to this water tank. Pos on side neg on the other and now have bubbles coming from the water.

    My theory is that I've just created air electricity.

    Confirm / deny.
  38. DeathHamster Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    How's Dr. Lo coming with that "Baser" beam?

    misc.invest.stocks | Google Groups
    If the Baser is still go, maybe he should get in touch with Sharron Angle? (If he hasn't already.)

    Also: American Technologies Group: What Are They Up To?
  39. Ersatz Global Moderator

    Re: Double Helix Water

    I have skimmed this tl;dr thread and have only one question to ask...

    WTF does this have to do with Scientology?
  40. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: Double Helix Water

    All humans need water to survive.

    All humans have double helix dna.

    The four elements was a decent movie. MULTIPASS

    Scientology is a cult.

    Ergo ipsi udum dei.

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