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Dianetics and Christian Science

Discussion in 'Education, Research and Inside Reports' started by rasputin, Mar 28, 2008.

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  1. rasputin Member

    Dianetics and Christian Science

    (If you're not familiar with it I'd suggest at least skimming the wikipedia article on Christian Science as their practices differ significantly from mainstream Christianity.)

    This isn't especially pressing but it piqued my curiosity nonetheless.

    In the 1950s Hubbard presented a book titled simply "Brainwashing" (Wiki, full text of the book), claimed to be recovered from the USSR as an example of brainwashing techniques used in Soviet-controlled areas. The book is pretty much universally considered to be Hubbard's own work. (it's one thing to brainwash people, but to write and sell a book explaining how you're doing it...)

    The following is taken from the Editor's notes:

    (I'm not sure if the Christian Scientists received their copy.)

    Searching through the text for "Dianetic," this same pairing comes up time and again - Dianetics and Christian Science as two threats to the Communist takeover; two strong, patriotic, American movements.

    What's the deal?

    The possibilities that come to mind are:
    1. Hubbard was just throwing in a reference to another group in the hopes of making the Dianetics references stand out less.
    2. Hubbard drew from Christian Science and considered it something worth bringing up as another positive group. Some practices of the Volunteer Ministers, for example, are basically faith healing.
    3. Hubbard had some direct involvement with or connection to Christian Science.

    As I said, this isn't especially pressing, it just seemed odd.
  2. Evey Hammond Member

    Re: Dianetics and Christian Science

    Almost completely off-topic, but when I was younger I thought that Christian Science and Scientology were the same thing due to similarities in their names. From what I recall (and the wiki article backs me up on this) is that they have similar thoughts on illness being the result of something you've done, etc. Interesting.
  3. Re: Dianetics and Christian Science

    I think it'd be best not to drag Christian beliefs into this...(Please it's for the best if we don't drag them in, or compare their beliefs to those Co$ has.)
  4. rasputin Member

    Re: Dianetics and Christian Science

    uh...

    I'm not suggesting we use this in publicity or try to raise it as an issue. quite the opposite. I just noticed it, thought it was odd, and wondered if anyone here had more info.
  5. Re: Dianetics and Christian Science

    That is a misunderstanding on my part, I apologize.
  6. mko Member

    Re: Dianetics and Christian Science

    I think a lot of people confuse the two. I used to, and I know someone else who did.
  7. Laughing Man Member

    Re: Dianetics and Christian Science

    It's another Narconon vs Narcotic Anonymous/Nar-anon trick. Calling it "Scientology", using a modified Judeo-Christian cross, and then making sure you throw in lots of references to Christian Science ensures the public confuses one with the other. Narconon thrives because of the confusion with Narcotics Anonymous. Often whenever I mention Scientology where I live, I have to say something along the lines of 'no, not Christian Science. Wholly unrelated". As far as their naming of things go, they seriously know what they're doing. It's a shield.
  8. Samuel Hughes Member

    Re: Dianetics and Christian Science

    WHAT?

    Don't you know what Christian Science is? It has almost nothing to do with Christianity any more than Scientology has to do with science.

    Seriously ... it does not offend Christians when you talk about quasi-Christians groups like Christian Scientists or Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses or whatever. Not that they don't have some Christian origins, and I'm not saying anything negative or positive about them, but they're totally different birds, except maybe in their own opinion.
  9. Burnt2 Member

    Re: Dianetics and Christian Science

    Yea you won't offend christians by talking about christian science. Christian science is pretty benign, especially compared with the Co$.
  10. Gunslinger Member

    Re: Dianetics and Christian Science

    Let's put it this way -

    When Hubbard wrote this, he had not started the obsessive push to have the world recognize his drivel as "Religion" yet. But you can tell the idea was building.

    But he had the habit of dropping names anywhere and everywhere he could. When he came out with Dianetics, he all but said that it was based on anything from Freudian psychology to Buddhism - in other words anything that might make the widest selection of people accept it without merit.

    Namefagging "Christian Science" could easily have been his way of saying, "Christian Science has its followers, right? And it's got the word Christian in it, see? And Dianetics is just as valid as Christian Science. See?"

    Also, his ranting about Communism was due to the nation's obsession with the "Red Scare" at the time because of Senator Joe McCarthy. Hubbard sent several letters to the FBI and the State Department, encouraging them to accept him and his writings as THE manual for fighting Communism.

    Of course, he also wrote to JFK, at the start of the Space Race, informing him that he and Dianetics would be perfect for training astronauts.

    Bottom line - he was a nutjob.

    And I agree with others who've already posted: No "legitimate" Christian Organization would be insulted with references to Christian Science as being "other than gospel." They aren't a "denomination" of the Protestant movement.
  11. Re: Dianetics and Christian Science


    AGREED! I am a committed Christian and I am glad when people talk about this kind of stuff as Christian Scientists are definitely NOT born again Christians. Neither are Jehovah witnesses, Mormons, Church of Christ, and the majority of the old mainline denominations and most of the Catholic Church that have mostly watered down and just about killed the true gospel.

    Anyway, I see a lot of parallels between Scientology and Christian Science. They both are centered on the "power" of the human mind to heal. I would think Hubbard borrowed some concepts from their church as he did from many other areas. The guy probably never had a original idea is his life!
  12. Gunslinger Member

    Re: Dianetics and Christian Science

    Feel free to take "probably" out of that statement, if you'd like. ;)
  13. mko Member

    Re: Dianetics and Christian Science

    Keep in mind "born-again Christian" usually means "Baptist"

    I am a Christian, do not consider myself "born again" as I believe I have never been properly (read: by triple immersion) baptized, and I am considered out-of-mainline at best and heretical at worst because I feel that the Gospel and particularly Jesus' own words are the most important part of the message and the rest is tangential to what's really important (i.e., love God and love your neighbor).

    Christian Science stretches the Bible to the breaking point - but they don't really, afaik, try to win converts at almost any cost like Scientology does, so any damage done by their "no doctors! no medical treatments!" stand is mitigated by their limited numbers.
  14. Samuel Hughes Member

    Re: Dianetics and Christian Science

    Be careful. Evangelicals have their own "anti-cult" movement and they bastardize the term to mean any group that doesn't share their theological view. That sort of thing is what Scientology regularly points to to dismiss the word "cult" as referring to religious partisanship or even bigotry - and they are sadly right in that case.

    And if you really insist on equating "Christian" to mean "Born-again" I will remind you that for much more than a dozen centuries since Christ, there was no such thing as "Born Again" theology as you are familiar with. The focusing in on the handful of scriptural passages to create such a salvation formula is a historically recent phenomenon.

    I am not negating its value - I know it has brought multitudes of people to God and better lives in the last 150 years. I am merely stating that you risk wrongfully labelling the majority of actual Christians, including the entire early church (contrary to revisionist historians), as unworthy of equal respect with Evangelicals.

    Sorry this is somewhat off-target - just some food for thought and I will try not to mention it again.
  15. RHill Member

    Re: Dianetics and Christian Science

    They did receive their copy:

    http://www.xenu-directory.net/practices/brainwashing2.html#19560203

    As you can read in the above letter, a representative of Christian Science actually reported Hubbard to the FBI: "your organization has been invoked by the Hubbard Dianetic Research Foundation".
  16. nightfire Member

    Re: Dianetics and Christian Science

    LOOK...just because YOU don't like certain Christian groups dosen't make them LESS Christian...
    So you don't like how these "others" practice christianity TOO BAD

    STAY ON TARGET

    and stop bashing people, and groups that are helping our cause.
  17. Burnt2 Member

    Re: Dianetics and Christian Science

    I agree.
    I'm a Christian too (born again, converted, etc etc);
    I'm not baptist, catholic, or five point fundie calvinist. I'm trying to do my best to love people/people groups, regardless of who they are and what they've done. Including scientologists, including other Christians who don't share my beliefs about Christianity. No hidden clauses.

    these tiffs don't serve any purpose in the context of anonymous/scientology.
  18. Re: Dianetics and Christian Science


    I don't know where you get your info from but what you said is entirely false. What does the word "Christian" mean? It means to be a "Follower of Jesus Christ and His Word, the Holy Bible".

    We believe Jesus said almost 2000 years ago that "unless a man be BORN AGAIN" he cannot see the Kingdom of God".

    That has nothing to do with a "movement" the "Baptist Church" or any other church. It merely means what it says. You must be born of God's Spirit to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Otherwise you are outside of Hsi Kingdom.

    That is not hate speech or a movement. A follower of Christ simply believes that is what Jesus said and we choose to believe it. Simple as that. It is one's choice to believe whether it is true or not. For me, I choose to believe it.

    If other's don't that is their free will choice to do so and they are entitled to their belief and even to call themself "Christian" if they so desire though in reality they are perverting it's true meaning.

    Thanks, ED
  19. Anonabliss Member

    Re: Dianetics and Christian Science

    Not good to be discussing religious differences here. Vote we keep this place secular and agree that we all hate scientology and leave it at that. *runs to avoid getting hit by a stray bullet*
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