Customize

Default Translating the Bayerisch "Schützt unsere Demokratie - Scientology Org." docu

Discussion in 'Translation and Text Composition Projects' started by brisanonb, Jun 10, 2008.

  1. brisanonb Member

    Default Translating the Bayerisch "Schützt unsere Demokratie - Scientology Org." docu

    Scientology Organisation as pictured on Wikipedia could be translated to English. It's quite short and I've started work on it myself.

    I think this would be an interesting move:
    Number 1, it shows us what a government department with some actual balls can say and bolster our efforts to lean on our own governments.
    Number 2, it could be used as leaflet material. Quotations could be used, or the document re-prepared for English audiences.
    Number 3, as it is a translation of an official govenrment document it may avoid libel issues associated with making unprovable statements in cetain jursidictions. I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice!

    I'm working on it atm from the beginning. If you want to help, maybe start at the last page.
  2. brisanonb Member

    Re: Translating the Bayerisches Staatsministerium des Innern's Scientology Document

    Slowly working on it. This is what I've got so far.
  3. brisanonb Member

    Re: Translating the Bayerisches Staatsministerium des Innern's Scientology Document

    Additional translation picking up from where I left off.

  4. Brogo Member

  5. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Translating the Bayerisches Staatsministerium des Innern's Scientology Document

    It would be nice to have the title of the document in the title of the thread as this organization published different documents.
    Already in the pipeline, if I am correct.

    A list of existing documents of this organization and their translation status would be helpful.
  6. TrevAnon Member

  7. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Translating the Bayerisches Staatsministerium des Innern's Scientology Document

    yes, there's a thread for this "Das Scientology System". The status of this: automatic translation completed. But no detailed, quality translation. I'll start with it, once I've improved the Verfassungsschutz-AG stuff as nothing has happened there until now. I would be grateful for anyone who can do anything about this thread concerning "Das Scientology System". I'm also not sure, whether there is something unique about this document, which hasn't been covered in other fliers already.

    If one wants to know "the official german stance on Scientology" there are other official documents, which are already in english and specifically designed for a US-american audience.

    Yes, a list would be helpful. What would be helpful first and foremost would be to sticky the following two threads: What should be translated from german to english and vice versa. Who do I have to contact to ask whether this is possible?

    These two threads:
    http://forums.whyweprotest.net/44-german/what-should-translated-german-10999/
    http://forums.whyweprotest.net/44-g...sated-next-into-german-subtitled-german-8049/
  8. TrevAnon Member

    Re: Translating the Bayerisches Staatsministerium des Innern's Scientology Document

    You might not be able to translate something into english, but how about you translating something into german? Might be easier.
  9. brisanonb Member

    Re: Translating the Bayerisches Staatsministerium des Innern's Scientology Document

    Seems I cannot change the title of the thread, only the title of my first post. If a mod could change the thread title, that'd be good. Thanks.
  10. brisanonb Member

    Re: Translating the Bayerisches Staatsministerium des Innern's Scientology Document

    A note on the translation if anyone is interested in using this, when I am done I will revise it so that sentences flow better. At the moment it's easier to give a technically correct translation, and then later move into copy editing. To this end, I would like any native speakers to glance over the two documents and tell me if there are any glaring errors!
    Also, a note on the use of "Scientological" - I don't think anyone uses this in English, but for the time being I am using it and will replace it during copy edit.
  11. brisanonb Member

    Re: Translating the Bayerisches Staatsministerium des Innern's Scientology Document

    Only a little bit to go now!

  12. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Translating the Bayerisches Staatsministerium des Innern's Scientology Document

    The best way to obtain it is to send a report by clicking on the triangle on the left of your post (below your name), requesting for a change and mentioning the name you would like to have.
  13. brisanonb Member

    Re: Translating the Bayerisches Staatsministerium des Innern's Scientology Document

    This is the 'paper document' appearing at the side. I presume this is an extant English memorandum, but I can't find it. The date is obscured.
    This is the German of the above order:
    And translations of the picture captions
  14. brisanonb Member

    Re: Default Translating the Bayerisch "Schützt unsere Demokratie - Scientology Org."

    Finished translation is finished.

  15. brisanonb Member

    Re: Default Translating the Bayerisch "Schützt unsere Demokratie - Scientology Org."

    Put it all together and what do you get?
    Don't use this version for human readable flyers, quotations etc. It hasn't been properly copyedited, corrected etc, it was a working translation/transliteration effort.
    You get one of the most damning, official documents I've ever seen.

    Copyediting in process now.

    PLEASE tell me if I've made any ridiculous errors, and also help me to find the Flag Order from 25 April 197*
  16. brisanonb Member

    Re: Default Translating the Bayerisch "Schützt unsere Demokratie - Scientology Org."

    Copy edit is done.
  17. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Default Translating the Bayerisch "Schützt unsere Demokratie - Scientology Org."

    thanks a lot!

    the document reads pretty fluent, I found two smaller mistakes in spelling

    I think it's "exist" instead of "exists".

    "hierarchy" instead.

    With regards to content all fits well with the picture and the sources except for this:

    This strikes me as odd. I always thought of OSA as the institution within CoS which is directed towards the -hostile- world outside of Scientology: PR, legal issues, intelligence work, spying, "fair game" in general. I always thought the internal equivalent if it can be said to be equivalent, would be the ethics departments and as a stay at the RPF results from very low conditions and the conditions are assigned by Ethics, I'd thought they would be the institution that would manage the RPF? Does this mean that the RPFs outside of the US -or do they mean outside of germany with "foreign nations" and thus all RPFs - are controlled by OSA? This is the first time I heard of this. I'm skeptical about it.
  18. brisanonb Member

    Re: Default Translating the Bayerisch "Schützt unsere Demokratie - Scientology Org."

    Thanks for the spelling mistakes. English is my native tongue, but no man was born with a keyboard.

    As for the RPF thing, they don't call it an RPF in the document. This is the text they have:
    Not sure if I've translated it properly. I can't remember worrying much about the sentence, so maybe I glossed over it. The only word that is a bit weird in there is "Aussteigeraussagen" which breaks down to Aussteiger = dropout, and aussagen = witnesses or testimonies?

    Actually, I am rereading this sentence and I've bollocksed it up. :frustration: It reads "Furthermore, the SO controls a secret-service "Office of Special affairs" (OSA) and according to dropout-testimonies (I'd run with ex-Scientologist statements) controls its own work and prison camps abroad.

    This is why I need someone native to pick up the glaringly obvious!

    I will edit the post to reflect these changes.
  19. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Default Translating the Bayerisch "Schützt unsere Demokratie - Scientology Org."

    Yes, they don't call it RPF, but to me it seems that's what they are referring to. I haven't checked for accuracy of content so far only read the translation. I'll do that check and edit this post when I've done it. Done now, see below Very probably today or tomorrow.

    my ad-hoc translation of the sentence in question

    "Furthermore, the SO has a secret service called "Office of Special Affairs" (OSA) and, according to statements by former members, SO also has its own labor- and punishment-camps in other countries."

    but maybe "control" is better than "has".

    update: Ok, I've gone through it. Great result, at some points I got proposals what may be changed/improved. See first post on next page for details.
  20. brisanonb Member

    Re: Default Translating the Bayerisch "Schützt unsere Demokratie - Scientology Org."

    Basically, I see the "Zudem verfügt die SO über eigene Arbeits- und Straflager im Ausland." in the sentence, and then there's a bit of "nach Aussteigeraussagen". Basically they've kludged together two statements:

    0. Scientology controls (über etw. verfügen):
    1. Secret OSA.
    2. According to statements, camps.
  21. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Default Translating the Bayerisch "Schützt unsere Demokratie - Scientology Org."

    Ok, I've gone through the document and compared it. At the following points I disagree or got alternative proposals, most of the points aren't all that important. Feel free to use or discard as you like. Also best change the wording whenever it sounds crappy. Your style is much more fluent than mine and it's really great when a native speaker is translating from german to english, because as much as I enjoy it, my translations to german are much better than those to english.

    proposal: "...and training courses for personality change." because it doesn't say "persönliche Entwicklung", but" Persönlichkeitsveränderung".

    proposal: "...and "harmful to the health" for those affected."

    because it doesn't say "für manche Leute" or "für einige Betroffene", but "für Betroffene" meaning "for those concerned" and I think this refers to those who practice Scientology, in general.

    proposal: "...the fundamental political tendency of his teachings was outlined by Hubbard"

    because it refers to his teachings, not his personal views. Of course, these are inseparable.

    proposal: "Scientology should seek to obtain control by influencing economy, politics and government."

    because the latter are mentioned as means to gain the former, the original is more in the direction of "take power by doing this" than "extend your influence in these areas".

    proposal: "In a world operated exclusively by Scientology guidelines, the democratic order would be replaced by a technocratic system, the “true democracy”. "

    because in the original, there is no inherent statement that the world would have such an order.

    not sure about this correction, but proposal:

    "Under Scientology’s aspired social order, the fundamental elements of liberal democracy are fully repealed."

    because in the original this refers to the social order intended by Scientology. One might argue that there already is a scientological social order within Scientology, but this refers to the wider society in case the scientological model would succeed.

    proposal, which sound crappier, but is more correct I believe: "According to this, there won't be any more human rights in a scientological society or any basic rights functioning as defensive rights against the government"

    reasoning: I believe "Danach" is in this case used as "according to this" (referring to the ideas outlined in the "handbook of rights" -or is it the "Manual of Justice" rather) and not as "afterwards". Also "Grundrechte als Abwehrrechte gegen den Staat" is referring to a basic conception in the german constitution -or in its interpretation- that the function of the basic rights (or fundamental, maybe that's better) is to protect citizens against the government, they are defensive in nature. This basic idea would be eradicated in a scientological society. That's also why I changed from "this government" to "the government", because the argumentation is more general.

    proposal: "The Scientology legal system affords rights only to a select few “honest people” who have devoted themselves to Scientology."

    because "ehrliche Menschen" is about people who are honest and not necessarily honourable, even if most honest people are honourable. Also "whom Scientology will prescribe" is not the translation of "die sich Scientology verschrieben haben" as this specifies, which type of people would be considered the chosen few "honest people", specifically that these are people who have devoted themselves ("sich verschrieben haben") to Scientology.

    proposal: "In contrast, people who deviate from Scientology’s model of personal and social conduct (“abberated people”) will lose all rights."

    because "Abberierte" is referring to "people who aberate". Sounds pretty artificial in german too, so I believe it's a pretty direct translation from english Scientology lingo (or it's used in german Scientology lingo and then the same argumentation applies) and it will be something like "abberated people" or "abberees". I think there even was a humorous Scientological magazine [yes, apparently something like this existed] called "The Abberee" decades ago.

    proposal: "The biotechnical society model by Hubbard, which determines the practices of Scientology, considers humans -as in computer technology- to be human-machines which should be reprogrammed in a learning laboratory and moulded by learning drills towards perfect functioning."

    reasoning for the changes: model instead of picture, I'm not sure whether picture can be used here. "and ruled by the practices of Scientology" is not a correct translation, because this part of the sentence is meant to point out that Hubbard's ideas, which are investigated, are determining Scientology; it's not about Hubbard's idea of society being one that is ruled by Scientology. Also "should" instead of "would" as the idea is being described here and not the reality should they succeed, contrary to the previous part of the text.

    I'm not sure, but maybe "disciplinary power" instead? What is meant here, is that the management, which is located in the US, are the ones to determine what's happening according to the formal rules of the hierarchy.

    proposal: "...and punishment camps abroad"

    because "prison camps" implies the use of force to keep people in place if they actually were to leave otherwise. This may well be the case, but isn't claimed in the original. The original claims the existence of camps with the purposes of work and punishment.

    proposal, changes in italics:

    proposal: "...was far beyond...", because "lag" is past tense.

    proposal: "So now it is correspondingly more necessary to..."

    because this refers to the part before this, it's like "It was unimaginable someone would try such a thing, so now that we know, it's all the more necessary to inform"

    not that important, but proposal: "...of extremist movements", because "Bestrebungen" is much closer to "intentions" than to "organizations".
  22. brisanonb Member

    Re: Default Translating the Bayerisch "Schützt unsere Demokratie - Scientology Org."

    Alterations have been made:


    ... training courses for personality transformation

    ... “inhuman” and “harmful to the health” to those affected.

    As early as his founding document “Dianetics”, the fundamental political tendency of his teachings was outlined by Hubbard.

    ... Scientology should seek to obtain control by influencing economy, politics and government.

    In a world operated exclusively on Scientology guidelines, the democratic order ...

    Under Scientology’s aspired social order...

    Accordingly, in a Scientology legal system, no citizen will have human rights or fundamental rights to defend themselves against the government.

    ... select few "honest humans” who have devoted themselves to Scientology.

    ... aberrant citizens ...

    Hubbard's biotechnical society model, which determines the practices of Scientology, considers humans, as in computer technology, to be human-machines which should be reprogrammed in a learning laboratory and moulded by learning drills aimed at achieving perfect function.

    ... disciplinary power ...

    ... penal camps abroad ...
    (Note, I've run with penal because it is a fine line. Straf- is correctional/penal/punitive. In English, "prison" "gaol/jail" and "penal facility" are more less interchangable. Punishment camp would be pretty clumsy and correctional facility (the more common term these days) seems a little relaxed. The use of penal these days is limited effectively to describing prisons.)


    Flag order amended, except the "the the lengths of" because it sounds odd in English. "Go so far as" works better and means the same.

    ... complete control was far beyond all imagination.

    So, it is now...
    The correspondingly bit breaks the flow.

    ... inform you of extremist movements.
  23. brisanonb Member

    Re: Default Translating the Bayerisch "Schützt unsere Demokratie - Scientology Org."

    Please find attached a finalised version of a downloadable PDF with copied formatting. I have excluded the Flag order, because I honestly think it didn't help explain much, and because without finding the original (likely to be in English) it'd be improper to print it.
  24. Fleischmann Member

    Re: Default Translating the Bayerisch "Schützt unsere Demokratie - Scientology Org."

    fukken saved.
    Good work, mate! I think we can use these for bilingual flyers for the next pickets/raids very well.
  25. brisanonb Member

    Re: Default Translating the Bayerisch "Schützt unsere Demokratie - Scientology Org."

    I will upload the Indesign .indd file for this document at some point, once I can find a storage site that is appropriate. I think the best way to ensure continuance of this stuff is to distribute it in as many forms as possible.
  26. brisanonb Member

    Re: Default Translating the Bayerisch "Schützt unsere Demokratie - Scientology Org."

    Just a note on the tiniest part of this (it struck me while driving down a highway in an unnamed country I am visiting). "Aberrant citizen" is much more likely to be "apostate" in its context of someone who has deviated from the Scilon worldview. I believe this word is part of their lingo.
  27. brisanonb Member

    Re: Default Translating the Bayerisch "Schützt unsere Demokratie - Scientology Org."

    Here is a RAR containing:
    - Original German Schützt unsere Demokratie
    - English PDF "Protect Our Democracy"
    - English Indesign document file.

    Megaupload Link

Share This Page

Customize Theme Colors

Close

Choose a color via Color picker or click the predefined style names!

Primary Color :

Secondary Color :
Predefined Skins