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Declaration of Larry Brennan

Discussion in 'Translation and Text Composition Projects' started by indeedindeed, May 21, 2008.

  1. indeedindeed Member

    Declaration of Larry Brennan

    This document shows how the structure of organized Scientology has been reformed in the 1980s, how the current leader David Miscavige took over from L. Ron Hubbard and also that there is no local independence of the Scientology organizations around the world. It was written by one of the architects of the new structure.

    Dieses Dokument zeigt auf, wie die Struktur der organisierten Scientology in den 1980er Jahren reformiert wurde, wie der derzeitige Anführer David Miscavige die Macht von L. Ron Hubbard übernahm und auch, dass es keine lokale Eigenständigkeit der Scientology-Organisationen rund um den Globus gibt. Es stammt von einem der Architekten der neuen Struktur.

    Die Erklärung von Larry Brennan

    original is here: http://crackpotpress.com/crackpot/images/stories/pdf/crs.pdf

    In a radio show with Dawn Olsen, Larry Brennan has confirmed authenticity.

    As this is a lot of stuff to translate, any help is welcome.

    addition from lermanet:

    Brennan's doc was originally webbed here
    http://www.lermanet.com/reference/brennan-dec.pdf

    The following text is just an inofficial translation and NOT an official translation of this important document

    Der folgende Text ist nur eine informelle Übersetzung und NICHT eine offizielle Übersetzung dieses wichtigen Dokuments


    current draft (at the time of this edit, there's a complete translation):

    update: Due to restrictions of the length of one posting I decided to split it in two and so the current version is here (post #37 in this thread) and in the post after this: http://forums.whyweprotest.net/44-german/declaration-larry-brennan-15114/2/#post529227
  2. Mumble Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    Here comes the part, I've already done

  3. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    Ok, thanks for your work, I'll just post suggestions on the first three points, emphasis is always added by me and not in the original:

    disagreement to "jederzeit". He probably would agree that he would be able to do it anytime, but he has written: "if called upon as a witness I could and would competently testify thereto."

    proposal:

    "filed" doesn't mean "ausgefeilt", but rather "eingereicht". Also it's not the documents he's going to call organized Scientology, but the CoS. Also, a verb is missing (gelesen). I'm not sure about "nachstehend", maybe "im Folgenden" is better. In addition to this I think we should keep the second pair of brackets. Also I think "Erklärung von David Miscavige" instead of eine Erklärung, because I think he is referring to the official name of these documents, I think that's why there are cpital letters used in the original. Because of the official style of this document I also suggest not to use the abbreviation CoS but to use the complete name.

    proposal:

    disagreement with regards to "wo die zuständigen Behörden". I suggest "wo die Regierungsbehörde" as it is closer to the original "where the governmental agency".
    disagreement to "aufgedeckt werden", it's not a false statement, but in the original it says "what is covered in this declaration", wich means the entirety of what he is talking about. So I would suggest "behandelt werden." Maybe this needs to be changed too, because he's talking about " the details behind what is covered in this declaration" and not about "the details covered in this declaration". But right now I don't know how to put this right in german, so I'll leave that for now.
    I also disagree with "der Misbräuche, Betrügereien und...", because he doesn't use "the".

    proposal:

  4. Mumble Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    Thanks for your help!

    Unfortunately I got only less time and concentration
    to work with it, but I will continue as soon as possible.
  5. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    Concerning the fourth point. I think it's better to say "Ich habe Grund zu glauben, dass" than "den Grund", as he's not referring to something specific, but rather that there is a reason to believe this. I'm not sure about "preisgeben", but don't have a better proposal right now. I prefer "Also möchte ich eines jetzt klarstellen", because it says "now" in the original. I think the last sentence should be remodeled in the following way, because I belief it does sound better: "Für den Fall, dass ich sterbe und es scheint, dass ich "Selbstmord begangen habe", möchte ich hervorheben, dass ich das nie tun würde". So, my proposal for 4. would look like this:

  6. TrevAnon Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    Maybe while translating it is a good strategy to first make a raw translation and publish it, so anyone who wants to understand what's in a document can read it Later get it smoothened to be able to go public with it.

    I think there are different audiences, each audience must be served differently.

    Anons in especially the English-speaking countries need not have perfect translations, they will understand anyway.

    If however you want to have something to share with the general public, the text you are producing must be of a better quality.

    In the latter case it is better to have a raw translation first: this enables one-language Anons to cooperate on a job by simply making a neat document of some other Anon's raw translation.

    This is the philosophy I used when translating "Das System Scientology" and other publications.

    It's just a suggestion to speed things up. German "Gründlichkeit" can be a disadvantage too... :wink: However, feel free to disagree...! :flowers:
  7. lermanet_com Member

  8. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    lermanet

    by "original" I just meant to say that the original text can be read there, not that this was the first publication. Thanks a lot for publishing it, I think this may be very valuable. Also, thanks a lot for your excellent work throughout the years.

    TrevAnon

    Maybe. But often the raw translation does not cover all aspects from the original and I think one needs to consider and understand the original anyway when producing a translation of a certain quality.

    Yes, it can be. But honestly, I don't really think it would speed up things that much, at least if one wants a quality product as the result. OTOH it doesn't hurt to produce an automatic translation. I'll try to speed some things up, e.g. start with the "System Scientology" improvement from your great results, but first I'll improve Verfassungsschutz-AG report and add to the list of sources. I'm taking a bit of a break now, but soon I'll go on with the work.
  9. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    concerning the fifth point:

    First of all, half of 5. is missing here (from "I believe that I have more knowledge of actions" to "This will be covered below").
    legal knowledge is rather "rechtliches Wissen" then "Gerichtswissen", also "rechtliche Angelegenheiten" instead of "gerichtliche Angelegenheiten". Also, "über die Geschichte des organisierten Scientology Unternehmen, Steuern, und andere gerichtliche Angelegenheiten" doesn't really sound good. "organized scientology's corporate, tax and other legal matters outside of the courts"
    So, proposal for the translated part of 5:

    There is still half of 5. to be translated.

    concerning 6.:

    I prefer "innehatte" rather than "innehielt". ":" instead of ".". "von Dezember" instead of "ab Dezember". "als ich die zugelassenen Grundlagen der organisierten Scientology ausübte." No, it can't be translated this way, because he's not describing his actions in this part, but what function of these local orgs he was supervising. "administering basic legal rudiments" is not "zugelassene Grundlagen ausüben", but "grundsätzliche rechtliche Grundlagen verwalten" or something along those lines. not sure about it, though, propably needs some improvement still.

    proposal for new version:

    May probably still be improved.
  10. Fleischmann Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    Which parts of this document are still up for translation?
  11. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    the other half of 5. and I also think everything from 7. onwards. Basically everything that hasn't been dealt with in this thread as of yet.
  12. Fleischmann Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    Alright, I'm on it.

    Rest von 5
    I'll do more later, mkay?
  13. Fleischmann Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    7 and onwards:

  14. Fleischmann Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    Next batch

  15. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    very, very nice. I'll update the OP with the current version, I'll incorporate my suggestions to mumble's draft of the first six parts. I'll also try to keep the OP updated in the future, so people can see what's the current state of this translation.

    update: another part I forgot to mention, which hasn't been translated yet, is 6. (ii)-(v)
  16. Fleischmann Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    Very well. Of course, if anyone wants to make suggestions on how to improve my work, feel free to do so! :)
  17. Fleischmann Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    Rest of part 6. Here it comes:
  18. lermanet_com Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    guys and dolls, thank you for doing this
  19. Fleischmann Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    Sure thing, Arnie!
    It's a good practice for my English skills as well, so I do benefit from translating stuff. :)
  20. Fleischmann Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    Now, after riding my bike for about 5 hours or something, I have done something mentally tasking as well to balance it out...here it comes:

  21. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    first draft of 25-30, except for 28 (ii)-(v) and 28 (vii), also first draft of 36

  22. Fleischmann Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    Please excuse me slacking right now, I have some trouble reformatting my HDD and shit..might be some days until I'm back in business.
  23. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    good luck, I'll just stay in business for a while.

    first draft of 32-35, also first draft of some stuff in 31:

    in 31:
  24. moarxenu Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    Hai guise! Does Larry know you are doing this? You are awesome.
  25. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    thanks, I don't know whether he knows, but I'd guess so, as he's posting on enturb as well. Maybe we should tell him and see if he's ok with it. It's not an official translation anyway and in its current state just a first draft with some parts still missing.
    There are some english documents that german spaking readers should be aware of regarding Scientology, just as the other way around, so the idea of these translations is to serve as a sort of bridge between the two worlds to further the flow of information.
  26. LarryBren Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    Dude! What you folks are doing with this translation is great. :hooray:

    I appreciate it very much. If it is ready before I go to Germany, I'll print it out and give it to Ursula to do with as she sees fit while I am there. We'll also be meeting with various people while we are there outside of the September 4 event and the translation will likely be very helpful there as well.

    So, again, thanks much. I hope I get to meet you folks very soon.
  27. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    Glad you appreciate it.
    I'm confident there will be at least a complete first draft before September. I'm also pretty sure there won't be a final version at that point. But at least a version so that all the content is in there and can be understood by a reader. The current state is always remarked upon in the opening posting.
    If you print it out and take it with you -that's really a nice idea, appreciate that!- please take the disclaimers with you, e.g. that it's not an official translation and just a draft, so noone thinks that this is exactly like in the original, because we -at least myself- are no professional translators.

    BTW, if you have any suggestions what else should be translated from english to german, e.g. anything from John Peeler or other preferably recent stuff which preferably can be connected to names (I'd love to translate Jeff Hawkins' blog one day, but it's very long), feel free to leave a note in this thread: What should be translated next into german?
    Same goes of course for anyone else reading this.
  28. Fleischmann Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    Sure thing Larry, we do what we must because we can. :)

    Eh, still not gotten around to those HDD reformatting crap, expect me back in business sometime next week.
  29. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    first draft for 28 (ii) and (v), also 31 intro (i) and (ii)

  30. Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    Have you guys thought about getting an AI translation, then just going through and cleaning it up? It sounds like it could work while making your lives easier.

    Free Translation Online
  31. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    Yes, I've thought about it, but don't think it would help a lot, as the majority of work would still need to be done and one might have to free oneself of the idea that it has to be done in a way close to the structure already in existence because of the automatic translation. Of course anyone is free to do so anyway and different people have different opinions on this subject.
  32. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    first draft of 17 and 24, also 28 (vii), 31 (iii) and (vii)-(ix)

    in 28

    in 31

    remark: Terms such as "corporation" or "corporate sortout" are giving me some headaches. I've translated corporate sort out as "Struktursanierung" and corporation/corporate most of the time as "Struktur" and sometimes with constructions including "Firma" or "Institution" or "Unternehmen". Verbatim it means "Körperschaft", but this is a rare word in german. It's not necessary to solve this immediately, but we should keep it in the back of our mind as something that we need to solve. Any suggestions are welcome.
  33. Fleischmann Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    It's alright, thanks mate, but I can use the practice. :)
  34. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    first draft of 31 (x)

    first draft of 28 (iii) and (iv)

  35. Fleischmann Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    Draft translation of 18 up to and including 21 (v)

  36. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    first draft of rest of 21-23

    Unfortunately OP is too long by now. When we got a first draft I will post the complete draft in two parts again and leave a remark in the OP.

    So now I will post the entire first draft in all its glory.
  37. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    original is here: http://crackpotpress.com/crackpot/images/stories/pdf/crs.pdf

    In a radio show with Dawn Olsen, Larry Brennan has confirmed authenticity.

    As this is a lot of stuff to translate, any help is welcome.

    addition from lermanet:

    Brennan's doc was originally webbed here
    http://www.lermanet.com/reference/brennan-dec.pdf

    The following text is just an inofficial translation and NOT an official translation of this important document. Same holds true for the next post.

    Der folgende Text ist nur eine informelle Übersetzung und NICHT eine offizielle Übersetzung dieses wichtigen Dokuments. Dasselbe gilt für das darauf folgende Posting.


    translation:

  38. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    second part of current draft

  39. Fleischmann Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    Oh lawd, is dat sum complete first draft?
    Cool. Proofreaders assemble!
  40. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Declaration of Larry Brennan

    I've corrected some obvious typos in the first part, as well as a handful of expressions, which were from my point of view definitely wrong. For any larger changes of course I'll make some notes here and then we'll see whether they have any merit. I'll update this post, when I have done the same with the second part.

    Guess he's talking about "undated resignations", which are "undatierte Rücktrittsschreiben", which means that they had letters, where these people declared that they left their post (also signed by them if i understand correctly), but without a date on these letters, so whenever they would get too unpleasant in the eyes of the "leading management", they could take these letters, enter a current date for resignation, and get these people off their post and replace them with someone more convenient. That's at least how I understood it. According to his affidavit -if I understand correctly- this was a method first employed by GO and later, after the "takeover" from GO by Miscavige, by him as well.

    update: done the same with the second part

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