David Love - Ministry of Health & Social Services Complaint

Discussion in 'Narconon' started by Intelligence, Nov 2, 2010.

  1. Intelligence Member

    Indeed it is. Took long enough,..., LOL.

    This file will lend credibility to more Expose, which will come in due course.

    I think the following resourse helped in finding the files:)

    • Like Like x 6
  2. Intelligence Member

    Quebec Ministry of Health and Social Services (18 page response arrived in mail today - 9 pages French & 9 pages English) :)

    It looks very good and positive for the Interventions they've taken. There is a wide range for a "Rebuttal Response" now
    that we know their concerns for Certification of Narconon Trois-Rivieres. One of their main concerns is the NIACIN doses
    and monitoring thereof.

    Will post more ASAP:)

    • Like Like x 2
  3. Intelligence Member

    We had a new response in from the Heath Ministry today, but it was in French. Being translated and will post ASAP.
    They are dealing with two new complaints from two others, on top of my several hundred pages.

    I will be sending them a new set of dox ASAP to deal with NN TR Certification. The Ministry has opened the door for me to now file with
    the College (Practicing Medicine Without a License and the Canada Competition Bureau for Misrepresentation/ Fraud - RE: Success Rate.

    Lots of delicious work to do. Looking forward to returning to Quebec in a couple days from now and "Taking Care of Business'"

    • Like Like x 3
  4. yoshiyoyo Member

    Health and Social Services Agency
    Mauricie and Centre-du-Québec

    Office of the Regional Service Quality and Complaints Commissioner


    August 19, 2011


    Re: Conclusions following the analysis of a complaint
    Our reference: 2011


    Last August 1, the Regional Service Quality and Complaints Commissioner received a complaint concerning the services offered by the Narconon Trois-Rivières residential resource for alcoholism and drug addiction. I have completed the review of this complaint and I am ready to present my conclusions and, when appropriate, my recommendations.

    Procedure followed

    During the review of this complaint, we did the following:

    T I took note of the various elements of information you provided us;

    T I met directors of Narconon Trois-Rivières;

    T I examined certain documents:

    - Narconon Trois-Rivières introductory guide;
    - Admission and services agreement for the withdrawal and detoxification phase of the Narconon program;
    - Admission and services agreement for the rehabilitation phase of the Narconon program;
    - Application manual for the Regulation respecting the certification of drug addiction or pathological gambling resources.
    • Like Like x 1
  5. yoshiyoyo Member

    The conclusions I am reporting are based on all the information thus gathered.

    Remarks concerning the framework for the review of complaints regarding health and social services and the responsibilities of the Regional Service Quality and Complaints Commissioner.

    The content of your complaint and the expression of some of your expectations lead me to point out the following:

    · As I indicated to you in the acknowledgement I sent you, the Service Quality and Complaints Commissioner is not responsible for ruling on questions related to the respect of the Quebec Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms. Only the Human Rights Commission has the power to make decisions on this subject. I provided you the coordinates of the commission.

    · It is not the responsibility of the Service Quality and Complaints Commissioner to determine if a person suffered damages after receiving services from a residential resource for drug addiction or if there is a resulting right to compensation. The Complaints Commissioner is not a court and cannot substitute itself for a judicial or quasi-judicial authority to render such decisions.

    · The complaint review procedure is thus an administrative framework whose main purpose is to improve the quality of services with the goal of ensuring the respect of the rights of users and the satisfaction of users.

    1. Basis of complaint: individual rights / right to information and to free and informed consent

    Statement of your complaint:

    · You complain that Narconon practices misleading advertising based on a 70% success rate.

    · You also emphasize that the program's promotional material mentions certified counselors and health workers. When you arrived at the withdrawal ward, you did not meet any health professional (not even the doctor from Montreal, before completing the withdrawal). You only met Scientology workers, former patients who work, without any real qualifications except for training given in the basement at Narconon. In sum, what you perceived as the ideal solution to resolve your problem did not turn out to be that.

    · You question the fact that you were asked to sign a contract while you were completely intoxicated. Even though you were not able to concentrate and really understand what you were reading, you signed or you were told to sign, without giving you a copy of the contract so that you could read it afterward.
  6. yoshiyoyo Member

    Analysis and recommendation

    I must begin by pointing out that residential resources for alcoholism and drug addiction must obligatorily be certified to exercise their activities. As stipulated by the law, Narconon Trois-Rivières has submitted a request for certification.

    First, as required by the certification rules, the operator must ensure that the advertising for the services offered matches reality. Therefore, it will no longer be possible for a residential resource for alcoholism and drug addiction to refer to a success rate. To satisfy the certification rule, the operator has already withdrawn this information from certain informational documents, including their internet website, and it will be removed from all documents they use.

    However, during my meeting with the operator's representatives, they informed me that this information would remain stated in the information published by Narconon International, since Narconon operates in different countries that are not subjected to this certification rule. Since the majority of the clientele comes from outside Quebec and is anglophone, this means that the information about the success rate with continue to be advertised to Narconon's clientele, including the potential clientele of the center in Trois-Rivières. It therefore appears important to me that this situation be brought to the attention of the Agency's certification officials so that they can ensure that this way of operating fully respects the certification rules.

    With respect to staff training, the certification rules impose the rules that Narconon will have to follow. Article 23 of the certification rules mentions that 75% of full-time case workers must have one of the following qualifications:

    · eligible university training in intervention (a list of eligible training is appended to the certification rules);

    · a university addiction counseling certificate;

    · eligible collegial training in intervention (a list of eligible collegial training is appended to the certification rules);

    The application of this measure will thus ensure that a resource's case workers have the necessary qualifications to intervene and to apply the program. The assessment of Narconon's conformity with this regulation will take place in the framework of the certification process. I therefore have no recommendation on this subject.

    Finally, regarding the contractual agreement that you signed, Narconon's officials have informed me that they were aware that persons are often not in a condition to fully understand the information included in the contract. This is why the operator's new practices require that a first agreement be signed before the withdrawal period and only for this period. Once withdrawal has been completed, a second agreement is signed for the rest of the program. Persons are then in better condition to understand the content of the agreement. Afterward, a copy of the contract is saved in the person's file and the person can, on request, consult its content. I believe this way of operating should prevent a situation similar to yours from happening again.
  7. yoshiyoyo Member

    However, the certification rules state that informed consent cannot take place in a situation of crisis, intoxication, or disorganization (Article 18). I therefore recommend that the Agency's certification officials ensure that the signature of a first form before withdrawal respects this certification rule.

    2. Basis of complaint: Care and services provided

    Statement of your complaint

    You condemn the approach advocated by the operator:

    · Even though it was known you had a liver illness, you received large doses of vitamins that gave you diarrhea and dehydrated you.

    · Afterward, you began the first of the eight books of the program. One of the exercises consisted of sitting in front of another person and concentrating on that person with your eyes closed for more than an hour without moving. The same exercise had to be repeated, but this time with eyes open. This continued for hours and days. You were not allowed to smile or do anything, otherwise the supervisor would yell and you had to start over.

    · Another exercise was to yell at an ashtray, to order it to stand up and then to yell at it to sit down.

    · In one of the exercises, you had to sit on a chair and be yelled at and receive degrading insults to humiliate you.

    · One exercise involved reading from "Alice in Wonderland". There were also work sessions in which you had to use questions such as: "Do fish swim? Do birds fly?" You later learned that these Narconon routines were the same as those of Scientology.

    · You question the use of niacin (2,600mg) and the fact that Narconon users must be in a sauna five hours a day. However, you were not able to reach this stage because you had a medical condition that did not allow it (hepatitis C).

    Analysis and recommendations

    Your complaint raises many questions about the approach advocated by Narconon. The operator's representatives point out that the exercises described in your complaint are communication exercises or aim to allow a person to regain control over different aspects of the person's life. They follow a predetermined progression and the objectives are explained to the participants.

    Article 6 of the certification rules requires that the drug addiction activities offered by an operator must be part of an intervention program that relies on an intervention approach or model recognized in the field. I wish to inform you that, in the course of processing
  8. yoshiyoyo Member

    an earlier complaint, I made the following recommendation to the Agency's certification officials:

    Ensure that, in the course of analyzing the recommendation made by the expert committee, the different components of the approach advocated by Narconon, in particular the use of niacin, will have been taken into consideration before determining if this is a recognized approach.

    Accordingly, I reiterate the same recommendation to the Agency, while also requesting that the new information you provided me about the activities described in your complaint be taken into account.

    3. Basis of complaint: Interpersonal relations

    Two elements of your complaint are related to this basis of complaint:

    · While you were waiting for other blood samples to be taken, it was not possible for you to continue your program. You were given training to help other patients. You worked for Narconon without being paid. You say you were injured while working in the kitchens and had to receive stitches. You had to pay the cost of this medical intervention.

    · You mention that, when a person disobeys the rules, the person is treated as a traitor and the person's photo is placed in the dining room so that all can see, or the person is reduced to silence without being able to speak to anyone for days.

  9. yoshiyoyo Member

    Analysis and recommendation

    The representatives of Narconon say it may happen that they ask a person who is waiting before being able to continue the program to perform certain tasks instead of having to return home. Regarding the medical costs, Narconon mentions that persons from other provinces have access to these services free of charge. For persons from foreign countries, these costs generally have to be covered by their personal insurance. Regarding situations in which, after completing the program, a client could work at the resource without receiving a full salary, they indicated to me that, since the past few years, they have been respecting the labour standards in effect in Quebec and grant the minimum wage to every worker. Accordingly, I have no recommendation to make on this subject.

    Regarding the way persons who disobey a regulation are treated, in particular by placing a photo on a bulletin board, the representatives of the operator informed me that an introductory guide is now given to each client on arrival. This document enumerates the rules to follow and describes the disciplinary system in cases where these rules are not respected. If necessary, the ethics officer may intervene with the person at fault to look for solutions to the problem. Regarding the fact that photos of persons may be put on display, the representatives of the operator informed me that it may happen that the names of persons at fault are displayed on a bulletin board.
  10. yoshiyoyo Member

    In connection with this practice, I wish to remind the officials at Narconon of their obligation to treat all residents with courtesy, equity and understanding, in the respect of their dignity, their autonomy and their needs. Moreover, I recommend to the officials of the resource that they ensure that the disciplinary measures taken by the operator toward a person who disobeys a rule of conduct respect the rules related to confidentiality.

    Additional observation by the Regional Commissioner

    Based on my reading of the Narconon Trois-Rivières introductory guide, it appears to me that the complaint review procedure described on page 45 of this document is not in conformity with Article 17 and Appendix 2 of the application manual for the regulation on certification. Article 17 states that the operator must inform all residents of their right to directly file a complaint with the Agency and Appendix 2 describes the procedure for filing a complaint. However, the procedure outlined in Narconon's introductory guide describes an internal complaint procedure and presents the recourse to the Regional Complaints Commissioner as a procedure for petitions that is available if a student is not satisfied with the resolution of a complaint. The recourse to the Regional Commissioner is not a second resort. Accordingly, I recommend that the operator:

    · Modify the complaint procedure described in the introductory guide to bring it into conformity with the certification rules (Article 17 and Appendix 2 of the application manual for the Regulation respecting the certification of drug addiction or pathological gambling resources);

    · Define, as required by Article 17 of the application manual, a procedure for the processing of dissatisfactions by the operator.

    In conclusion, I thank you for having filed a complaint with the Regional Commissioner. The review of your complaint has allowed me to make recommendations to the resource to prevent similar situations from occurring again. In the event that you are not satisfied with the conclusions, the law permits you to file a complaint as a second resort to the Public Protector (see the attached appendix for the coordinates).

    Thank you, Mr.

    Denis Grenier
    Regional Service Quality and Complaints Commissioner
    • Like Like x 8
  11. very nice yoshiyoyo, its all steps in the right direction isn't it?
    thanks for posting
  12. yoshiyoyo Member

    yup for sure and copy was sent to human rights commission in help on my file and investigation already in progress :)
    • Like Like x 8
  13. peterstorm Member

    Well done yoshiyoyo. This is invaluable.
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Intelligence Member

    Indeed, very well done! Awesome work my Friend :)

  15. Intelligence Member

    AND there is one more "Ball Busting" step you can do if you want. I will point in that direction when I get back to Quebec,..., LOL.

    Once again; AWESOME job! :)

  16. Intelligence Member

    Waiting for my flight back to Montreal and bored, so thought I would upload a tease for something to do.

    Will start a new thread later of trip, protest, and other yummies when back in Montreal :)

    • Like Like x 1
  17. Anonymous Member

    Looks to me like white haired lady didn't want her face up on YouTube for some reason, so there was an effort to provide a bit of cover as she left the building.

    This makes me curious to know who she is.
  18. Intelligence Member

    They didn't like a lot of things we did today.

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  19. Intelligence Member

    Now that the Ministry of Health and Social Services has responded in writing, I will now
    complete the pakage of new and recent documents (about an additional 250-260 pages)
    and forward to the Ministry to have on hand for the individual Investigators and Review
    Committee that will make decisions concerning Certification of NN TR.

    I will forward a Brief to the Quebec Ombudsman and ask that they oversee the entire process,
    as well as c.c. to other Government and Political entities.

  20. Anonymous Member

  21. Anonymous Member

  22. Intelligence Member

    Just spoke receiver of Heath Ministry Response. There are some blatant lies by NN TR executives in this report
    and I have rebuttal dox on this. We're going to file two reports to the Quebec Ombudsman. One from me and
    one from Joshua.

    We will request an Investigation and Inquiry, while the Ombudsman oversees the Certification procedure
    of Narconon Trois-Rivieres.

    Once the request is received, the Ombudsman MUST act. This is our laws. Love it :):):)

    • Like Like x 4
  23. xenubarb Member

    The funny thing is, lies from the nice, friendly Narconon people are often not challenged because they put on such an effective veneer of professionalism. I reckon it's about time somebody challenged them at this level!
    • Like Like x 1
  24. yoshiyoyo Member

    Narconon has a way of deterring attention to other subjects and avoid the actual issue at hand. it can be easily missed or just plain annoying and cause confusion. Well my little nark`s the early bird get`s the worm and I think we have yours!!!
    • Like Like x 1
  25. xenubarb Member

    This is a tactic common to Scientology PR people at large, too.
  26. yoshiyoyo Member

    Ya like answering a question with a question that pisses me off big time
    • Like Like x 2
  27. Intelligence Member

    LOL,..., hang in there my Friend :)

    I'm working lare into the morning hours compiling dox for the Human Rights Commission, Health Ministry,
    and the College of Physicians.

    If you're good at Googling and have time, Read:


    I could use some help. Try using different sets of key words, such as "narconon deaths" "narconon dangerous niacin" etc, etc:)

    It will be theraputic for you,..., LOL:):):) ,..., <BIG HUG>

  28. Anonymous Member

    View attachment screenshot20110821at121.png

    Carol Carothers, head of NAMI Maine? Longshot as I have no idea if she has any ties to the Vancouver area.


    NAMI has been a friend to psychiatry for many years. So it's weird to hear a NAMI director describing restraint procedures for violent patients as cruel and something that ought to be banned.

    Older pic of Carothers from here:

  29. Intelligence Member

    Meeting with mainstream media within one week. Should be interesting EXPOSE:):):)

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