David DeMoss blows the cult and Facebook Disconnection

I think there are raisins involved...

Gonna sing a song about how you can't hug every bunny?

I used to have a bunny. My older brother ate it, then he died and I am left alone.

ears perked.....

No, I said that Miranda moved the derails that were crated by Sciento a couple of months ago and that I thought it was the right decision. I didn't say she moved stuff from the current thread.

http://peopleslobbyist.wordpress.com/

Pffftt! Julian Whitaker is part of Scientology's detox circle jerk, an all-but-Scientologist.

• whitakerwellness.com
• whitakerhealthfreedom.com
• thefhf.org
• drwhitaker.com

You did the purif? Like the whole thing? How long did it last?

Thanks. Let's see what stuff comes out of me on this one...

First off, after I dropped out of college because one day I took some acid, realized AGAIN I was in a shitstorm because my roommates were now selling coke. I was down for selling the herbs, but was not into coke. Anywhooo I dropped out (after I tuned in..., and went back to Puerto Rico (where I'm from) and started my search for WTF. Had some *very* interesting adventures during that time. A year or 2 later, I was deep into my search into philosophies, religions, metaphysics and whatnot. I bought Dianetics and loved it for ONE main reason: It offered me some sort of scientific looking processes instead of the whole "believe in God and all shall be fine" stuff I was running into at the time that just didn't flip my skirt up AT ALL.

So *I* got myself into Scn then and dumped like 20k to purchase a training package and by the end of 1989 I was on my auditor internship. And the rest they say is history..

So.... what I'm saying is that I'll take full resp for getting myself in there. Hell I LOVED IT PEOPLE. I could handle the shit and the lies balanced with the wins and the fun and the whole PURPOSE of it all.

Sure - EVERYBODY LIES. And everybody inserts truths from time to time.

What is real to me? What is real to you? What shit do you like to do? What shit do I like to do? What music do you like?

Point is, there are over 7 billion of us here now. NOONE HAS YOUR INTERESTS IN MIND. Not even your mommy. Yes she may love you, but she is living HER life putting HER ideas into your life. Are they your ideas or her ideas? (extrapolate that out to everybody else including Lron, and everybody else.)

One of the key things I read in my early days in Scn was the thing about taking a datum (of his) and seeing if that datum was true - sit with it, explore it, figure out if it is true for you or not. If not, dump it and move on.. I took that shit to heart and made me feel like this here thing was the Real Deal (c). Course once I was in and heavily invested, I saw that few had my discernment, and fewer still had the nuts to say something or "write a KR" or whatever internal processes we had for that kind of stuff.

No - I realize for most of y'all my saying the above just FUCKING PISSES you off and you instantly CANNOT have someone speaking ever slightly positive of the CofS because YOU KNOW IT IS AN EVIL CULT THAT MUST BE DESTROYED. I get that, but seems to me that ALL things by their very nature are valueless until *you* assign some value to the thing. For instance - there is an apple. I might think - AWW YEAH - APPLE TIME (munch munch) You might go APPLES?? Fuck that!! WHERE IS THE BACON?!?!!? The apple by it's nature is neither bad nor good. It simple IS. It was I and the other person who assigned a value of "good" or "bad" to the apple.

My father just passed away less than 2 months ago. He had Alzheimers. Most people think that shit is the worst shit ever. And it is. To them.

However... if ever you've seen the movie Regarding Henry with Harrison Ford, THAT is what happened to my father. The dickish parts of Dad were erased and he reverted to being a loving child-like being. BECAUSE OF THAT, one of my sisters had quite a moment with him where, BECASUE OF HIS ALZHEIMERS, he was nothing but loving with her, when in the past he was less interested for this or that reason. For her it was a life changing moment and any doubts that he ever loved her (or she for him) were forever erased. That was a moment. BUT, most people CANNOT SEE BUT WHAT THEIR (mostly negative) mind/thoughts/others tell them to think about things.

So... my argument here is simply that each of us assigns value to things. Things in themselves have no value but what you assign them.

So - Scn by that view is both VERY POSITIVE, ABSOLUTELY NEUTRAL, and VERY NEGATIVE and all the other shades of grey between. Like all things.

*YOU* Assign the value.

Currently the MASS CONSENSUS on this planet is that Scn is a weird ass cult that needs to reform it's stupid shit so that it can at least operate at the same playing level as What? Other corporate entities? Other religions? Look at Catholicism - JEBUS the shit they pulled is RIDICULOUS compared to this little piddling things that our crazy cult pulls off. Now though Catholicism is a shadow of it's former self and has very little relevance compared to it's hold on the masses years ago. Good Bad?

I'm for a civilized planet where I can enjoy my family, my life, where all are fed and we all care about each other as a race.

*YOU* Anonymous, as you well know, stand up for the little guy (and or just do shit for the lulz) but mostly it seems you are here doing what you do because anger directed action is WAAAAAAAAYYYYYY better than sitting on the sidelines going "everything is fucked - life sucks"

Venting through action is ALL GOOD. Leads to positive changes.

I'm not your target here. I'm just another wandering soul trying to figure out what's what.

And because I'm generally quite the optimist, I find that I am a better man from my experiences with Scn. I appreciate ALL the lessons L Ron and COB and the rest taught me.

I can laugh and joke and poke fun at the silly shit, but remember, waking up and maturing is a slow process. Further I don't need to be saved - I'm not one of these cult victims - while you may portray me as such, that will just be you portraying me as such - zero relevance in my universe other than if whatever you may say about me causes me to respond in some way.

(I'll put on my flame retardant suit on now (or is that flaming retard suit?)

Oh and thanks for all the bunnies guys and gals!!

Why bunnies?? WHO CARES THEY ARE CUTE!!

Anyone want to show us their pussies now? HERE KITTY KITTY!!!

Yes, the whole thing and it lasted too fucking long. I'd rather not get more specific than that.

I am not here to insult you.
BUT, I am going to respond to what you have said.
why I don't know. I am on my lunch break.

sorry, but it sounds like you are still very much under COS mind control
for instance the ol' "whats true for you" mentality is still a way of accepting the flaws of COS and keeping blinders on.

comparing COS to the Catholic church?- heard it from Scis a MILLION times before.

you say
"Most people think that shit is the worst shit ever. And it is. To them."
wow! I guess you have no idea the pain a family member(s) can endure while watching another family member mentally slip away.
Whether there are sweet/tender moments or not, it is a degrading and a very, very sad disease. You talk about it in a very uncaring and flip manor. I never felt a sadness from you about your father's passing. Unless its just you are being sort of macho and I misunderstood.
And sorry for his passing.

you say
"So... my argument here is simply that each of us assigns value to things. Things in themselves have no value but what you assign them"
very Hubbard-ish

So are you saying that all the abuses that COS has committed and continues to commit is value-less and not important to you?
That's certainly your right, but not a very commedable stance. It certainly does not help the fight or to help others. Which again is your right.

"I could handle the shit and the lies balanced with the wins and the fun and the whole PURPOSE of it all"
Sorry! sounds like more self centered Scientology ways of keeping the blinders on and not owning up to what COS has done and continues to do.

You can be thankful to Hubbard and COB (wow)
and that is of course your right, but keep in mind that being thankful to two people who have caused so much pain, suffering, and financial drain to so many people is again not very commedable to say the least. COB continues the abuses today as per policy written by Hubbard who was a total fraud /con man.

You need more time to "detox". IMO
And if you don't want to, this is also your right.
But I hope you come out of it some day.

Very interesting post CaseSuperStar. Thank you for providing another perspective on life with scientology. I'm very glad you were able to retain your discerning abilities through that experience. And I defend your rights to your beliefs

I understand what you are saying about good and bad often being in the mind of the beholder. My Grandmother, in her dying days, was NOT a psycho bitch from hell for the first time that I had ever seen. While the rest of my family ran around wringing their hands about what to do because she wasn't herself anymore, I was saying 'Good grief, leave her in her happy place (ffs).' That argument only goes so far however. The death of millions due to disease, or war, or floods is tragic to people there, but perhaps less so to many further away. And the death of, say, a single child, is a horror to the family and community, but may not even register beyond those borders.

But your allegation that 'things' have a value determined by the individual presupposes that individual lives alone on an island somewhere. Because some woo-drinker in my country thinks his god approves of old men marrying/sexually assaulting 12 year old girls does NOT make it right. The interests of others also must be considered and at the very least requires informed consent. Not possible with a 12 year old. Therefore I don't care that HE thinks it's right, when the other parties do not. Those opinions are not of equal value.

I believe you are a parent. What are your thoughts about scientology auditing of young people? Do you feel that procedure strengthens or weakens the parent-child bond? The evidence I've seen indicates that auditing, and the secrets' disclosed, are not to be discussed beyond with the auditor. As a parent, I find that alarming as it puts the parent second in terms of being an active part of the development and growth of their child. What is your opinion?

And I very clearly disagree with your following statement. It tells me you have not experienced unconditional love. While I am sad for you I am not surprised. In the fuckton of scientology materials I have read I have never seen any evidence of unconditional love. As a parent I would die for my children. Yes, as I have guided them and raised them, I only had the sieve of my worldview to look through. But I encouraged them even when I didn't understand or agree. There is no room in scientology for that.

And PUSSY for you.

View attachment images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSJj2kiUOcui3C50A-VF0LhtsqpHRU8h

Miranda didn't move it.

When the fuck did ESMB TAKE OVER WWP?

Everyone in this thread is insane. Thanks

Why? Last time I sat around in a sauna with a bunch of naked gay guys, we were talking about "Wins" on the.. ahem.. dating arena.

It didn't. More & more people tired of the Freezoners & Indies using ESMB as a forum to promote LRH & Rathbunology are posting on WWP.

I used to have pet rabbits. They're all cute & cuddly, but could never be house broken... if you know what I mean.

My rabbit is litter-trained. But you do need to make sure there are no accessible cords or wires.

My bunny pooped in a litter box also. Still, I ate the turds.

Interesting thread. I have read entirely too much excusing of the cult sucking (perhaps weak-willed) people in, taking their money and fucking up their families being excused by saying that they have free will, and a right to do whatever they want. This is the cult that sucked in my ex-wife, had her blowing the child support I provided without fail month after month so that she could cruise around on Hubbard's tugboat and buy books and CDs. This is the cult that drained her to the point that she lost the home my kids were living in, this is the cult that persuaded her that it would be just fine to abduct these same children so that she could go work in an org in the country where her citizenship rests. I am exhasuted from anyone that cries about rights and free will and fails to mention even a bit of resoponsibility, or an acknowledgement that not everyone is always in a position to make a solid, reasoned choice, and can fall victim to a variety of things.
In closing, this fucking cult has cost me nearly $20,000.00 this year just to get my kids back, and I am nowhere near done yet. I will be there when the church of scientology is buried, and will piss on the grave after the final shovel of dirt gets tossed on the top.

^^^^

Absolutely.

All the bullshit about free will - CHILDREN HAVE NO FREE WILL IF BORN INTO THE CANCER CULT

David DeMoss's kid is better off with Mary if this is his idea of a father-figure.

I almost wish I'd joined the cult just to kick Miscavige's ass.

Did it contain the 4 food groups?

I publicly challenged him to a fight. He never responded.

Picking on midgets. How big of you.

David, you stopped being a client of the Scientology corporation because you saw things you did not want. If you had known what you know now about the criminal and abusive practices of the company, would you ever have joined? No, of course not. You joined based on lies Hubbard wrote, and false promises of superpowers. Whatever benefits you feel you achieved could most likely have been had by seeking counseling from a psychologist or psychiatrist, without handing over piles of cash, and your family to the company.

Until you can admit to yourself that you were the victim of a con, you will continue to suffer.

Thinking things over is a good thing. Understanding that ethical value is ultimately something we assign, not a function of the thing in itself (unless one believes in an ultimate authority) can also be valuable, though it tends to muddy the moral compass a bit. The problem with moral relativism is that it carries some luggage with it. It can give you new insight and let you find ways of dealing with your own problems, at the same time it desensitives you to others suffering, and make it difficult to critically evaluate ideas based on the "greater good" (most good for the most dynamics etc). Guess why the CoS find such value in pushing this view on it's followers...

You are not the first X to come here and tell us you found value in the (lower grades) teaching of CoS. Hubbard nicked any good idea he could lay his hands on. There has to be something that is of value to some people in CoS, or the scam would not work in the first place. The problem is that Hubbard loaded the dices, whatever you found value in, you can rest assure the CoS would have used against you later on, at at stage where your capacity for critical thinking was suitably subdued. The reason most WWP'ers reject anything from Hubbard outright is not that it has no value, but that it all to some degree is a Trojan horse.

Comparing CoS to the Catholic Church is the oldest trick in the scientology chest of relative morality tricks. Sorry, it does not stand up to closer scruteny. Just show me all the scientology run homeless shelters ...

My condolences on you father! I am glad to hear his passing had it's bright moments. Not all who dies from Alzheimers are as lucky.

Currently? Was there ever another "consensus" about the crappy alien cult?!
The Catholics? Co$ crimes little compared to them .... Yeah .... never heard that one before.

yep..2004

For something that's claimed to be a "Science of the mind" that's quite a radically anti-science belief. Personal Truth leads people to all sorts of absurd beliefs -- that they converse with the ghost of Elvis, or that they will be hitchhiking on a passing comet by committing suicide....you name it. It's the ultimate dismissal of objective truth. What's true for you is not necessarily true at all. Even Scientology falls flat on its own face by invalidating the belief when declaring all sorts of detractors as "insane".

They don't even believe their own shit, or their response to critics would be to shrug and say, "what's true for them".

It's a thought stopping technique, my friend. A trick to convince you that no further examination is required once you reach the conclusion that "it's true for me."

Howdy, David.

You’ve got some fall-down hilarious lines in this thread, tho probably not a lot who will fully appreciate. If you’re an on-the-edge physics/engineering mind, then you’d probably like Skeptic Tank, (you can subscribe) and Lisa Randall’s latest “Knocking On Heaven’s Door” book.

Way over my head. I’m more sciFi fan because I have the artistic mindset and scifi authors help me understandb/translate the latest wild and crazy scientists discoveries in street English.
I understood a lot of what you said, but you lost me in some places. I assume by now you are familiar with the scientology onion, the peeling of the layer process for those leaving, at least leaving the inner rotten core. You sound to me like someone that’s got quite a few layers to go, but as I’m sure you are aware, my opinion means squat.

I just wanted to drop in and say that I am sorry for your loss and I hope you find your new way of improving the world around us all. For those like you that were in it to help, it’s a godawful shock, followed by sense of loss, followed by... well from there it's customized.

I hope you’ll take the opportunity to learn more, and most of all, have a fulfilling life including time and resources now for family and friends. Oh, and the Purif stuff. That was one of those areas that at first I thought wasn’t so bad because, like you said, so many survived it. Well, that’s part of the critical thinking processes, learning how to analyze, kind of stuff that has helped me sort it out, but from where you are right now, I really do understand what you’re looking at. Just keep on learning about it. Hey, I’ve had to eat crow so much I’ve perfected a pie that would probably win awards! Most people, fortunately, understand and give space to grow.

And yes, this is a piss-poor place to mention “scientology wins”…I’d recommend ESMB for that. And you’re conceptual imaging of anonymous needs new circuits or soldering or something (I’m so not an engineer, but some of my best friends are, lol). For instance, I’m ex-sci, also SO, Exec, even "OT" (quotes are intentionally derogatory) among many other interesting as well as boring labels. Yeah, there’s a few that “hate” and man, they have damn good reason for it, in the extreme. Some day you might realize that this is a place for helping. ESMB mostly about healing. Whatever, I’m glad you’ve moved on and wish you the best. The work you did and sacrifices you made should count for something. I hope that something at the very least means a close and happy relationship with your son now and in the future, and at best a fulfilling career.

Oh, P.S.: What Anonymous said above, that whole speel about "ultimate dismissal of objective truth" and the dangerous edge of "what's true for you" thinking. He/She is absolutely right and come to think of it, that's the antithesis of "engineering thinking". Isn't that a conflict for you?
I have known one deeply (think "solid") religious engineer. He had some issues, let me tell you.
Hey, integrity is great, when it's based on facts and science. When it's not, well, all manner of things can happen, many of which are turned into either a cult or a Reality TV series.

Good stuff here.

I once read a book about moral relativism, by a guy called Ian Brady. He was a child-rapist and murderer - one half of the Moors Murderers.

However we all can agree what an apple is - a spherical shaped fruit that grows on trees, etc... This is a fact for all whether we like to eat apples or not. When eating an apple it doesn't suddenly transform into a ball with sharp, metal spikes that puncture our cheeks. Scientology, on the other hand, was intentionally designed from the get go as a racket and a con game for the benefit of the person at the top. People get lured into it using fraudulent and deceptive techniques and wind up getting their cheeks punctured by metal spikes (metaphorically speaking). That said, I am personally glad that you are out and are happier for it.

Also, here is a kitty for you:

Wow. I can't spend more than 7 minutes in a sauna. I measured. I can't imagine doing it for hours, every day.

david, since the thread says it's about you blowing teh cult and getting the shitty end of the disconnection stick.. are you going to release stats on this?

a/x scientology related facebook friends have disconnected
b/x scientology related facebook friends have publicly refused to disconnect
c/x scientology related facebook friends have done/said nothing

ID Number: 20111361499
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Registered Agent: Mary VonBreck
Registered Agent Street Address: 80 Pima Ct., Boulder, CO 80303
Principal Street Address: 80 Pima Ct., Boulder, CO 80303
Status: Good Standing
Form: Limited Liability Company
Jurisdiction: Colorado
Formation Date: 06/24/2011
Term of Duration: Perpetual

http://www.sos.state.co.us/biz/ViewImage.do?fileId=20111361499&masterFileId=20111361499

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Exactly. Although "ought" arises from our feelings, "is" has nothing to do with our wishes, fears, or best interests.

If I ask, does the Purification Rundown help substance abusers get off drugs? I don't expect to hear, "I did it and it was da bomb." Nobody cares about one persons subjective experience. What we want to know is, do substance abusers have a longer period of sobriety after doing the purif than some other program.

New Agers always be talking about their "wellness" or bowel movements or wins or other boring crap like that. They are the dullest people evar.