Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by the anti, Jan 8, 2011.

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  1. LRonAnon Member

    'Prolly so Kilia, I'm not all googlieye over Palin. MILF, maybe.

    As it works out; I have Jerry Brown who just put the band back together. Now I get to watch the world burn (figuratively speaking).
  2. TinyDancer Member


    Nobody said that, LRon.
  3. LRonAnon Member

    I'd like to introduce you to Nobody and Somebody. Wait and see what happens when Busybody gets here.

    Be careful what you wish for...


    No one here said that. Your post appeared to refer to this discussion. --Miranda
  4. UMULAS Member

    As we see that more and more corrupted govertment systems are just trying to win back over the people through "cleaning" out the problem. I belive in the idea of a messed up life the boy had to take up his life on that and somehow how killed 6 people yet he killed the congress? Conspiracy? Maybe. Will more be targeted? Most likely.
  5. xenubarb Member

    The fact that anyone might be surprised at non-violent teabaggers shows you have an image problem. Curiously, it seems only the teabaggers have been creative with the violent imagery, so don't act all surprised when some feeble minded moron responds to that rhetoric by going to guns, as Tom Cruise put it.

    The precious little teabaggers and violent rhetoric go together like cheese and pie. If you can't change it, you might consider leaving it so the stank of stale tea leaves doesn't reek up the place.
  6. xenubarb Member

    Yet is it not the tea baggers who are producing the hate-filled yet cutely coy exhortations to rise up and take second amendment remedies? How can you say it has nothing to do with it? Just because the guy was some freerange nut case, you can't spew violence without expecting somebody to actually carry it out. Palin's gun sites. Angle's "second amendment remedies."

    You think this madness would only affect Tea Party listeners? My cousin works in law enforcement with the feds. Doesn't mean I can arrest people. So your wife's a psych. Doesn't mean you can diagnose people.

    The Tea Party, by failing to rein in the cutesy assassination rhetoric of its leaders, is so responsible.
    • Like Like x 1
  7. xenubarb Member

    It's a little ironic, politicians coyly calling for the assassination of others. You'd think they'd want to damp that down, being as how politicians in general are the targets of assassination, and Palin/Angle and the ilk are not themselves bulletproof.
    • Like Like x 2
  8. xenubarb Member

  9. Miranda Member

    Not everyone who is in the Tea Party means to promote violence. But it's hard to overlook the fact that both Giffords and the judge had received death threats related to their moderate or liberal positions on various issues. I do believe that the imagery and the rhetoric contributes irresponsibly to a climate of rage that certainly fuels various crazy schemes. You don't go around using a political platform to advocate second amendment remedies and put targets on specific people, and expect that no one will take you at your word. At best, that is gravely irresponsible and "part of the problem."
    • Like Like x 3
  10. Miranda Member

    LOL why I would never!
  11. xenubarb Member

    Our Doomsday is their Utopia...just sayin.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. xenubarb Member

    It's hard to believe that the people defending the Tea Party candidates who have been spewing this garbage for the past two years are the same people that make tch noises when the topic of Scientology influence on weak-minded people arises. Taking advantage of the disabled and mentally uncertain, we hear. Rapacious predators influencing people who need guardians, we hear.

    And yet somehow, when people of celebrity who claim alliance with the Tea Party call for the assassination of "enemies," and some mentally ill nut job takes a semiautomatic weapon and carries out that "Second Amendment Remedy," suddenly it's not the Tea Party's fault because the lunatic wasn't "one of theirs," how does that work?

    Can you expect a mentally unbalanced person to recognize the difference between an order and hyperbolic rhetoric?

    The Tea Party and Faux News mouthpieces are primarily responsible for creating an environment of hate and fear, an environment that could easily send someone whose grip is loose over the edge into madness. We have been reading about the potential danger every time a call for the assassination of someone is demanded by the Faux News empire. If someone busts a cap in Assange, how is Glenn Beck not responsible?

    How is Palin, Angle, Kelly etc. not responsible for this tragic occurrence?
    • Like Like x 2
  13. I know you are being facetious but if the SarahPAC crosshair maps and her comment to "don't retreat, reload" had any effect on him there is the connection to Scientologist John Coale who started Palin's PAC.
  14. whosit Member

    Just a little something for you to look at while you blame Tea Party people.

    The Daily Kook is pretty vile with their take on things also.

    Oh and this, seeing that the loon focused on her before there even was a Tea Party.

  15. Zak McKracken Member

    Sometimes tea partiers dress up as faggots so as to conceal their identity
    and sneak onto boats to commit acts of pir8cy
    and risk their precious little lives, for lulz not srs
    then creep away with their wicked little smiles to themselves

    ...and then you got Sarah-PAC
    guess its all the same thing, right?
  16. LRonAnon Member

    Bonus Combo Points for curious rhetoric, hypocrisy and intimidating chatter.

    I digress, I shall now leave you alone to wander the hallways.
  17. incog712 Member

    Neither Palin or the Tea Party are responsible for this shooting but at this point it doesn't really matter. Palins political aspirations have been (metraphorically) shot to hell. She is now the poster girl for the downside of screaming fire in a crowded theater. An honor that is also going to drag the Tea Party down along with her. Rightly or wrongly, there aren't enough Glenn Becks in the world to squeeze the toothpaste back into this tube.
    • Like Like x 3
  18. Zak McKracken Member

    November 202x
    28th amendment to the U.S. constitution is ratified, repealing the 22nd
    by overwhelming majorities in all states
    allowing [those guys!] to run for a remarkable 3rd term

    The 45th president of the United States subsequently remains in office, presiding over an unimagined epoch of peace and prosperity, until the mid 22nd century when a short in the wiring causes an unhappy accident during the [mod edit]
  19. ziptang Member

  20. ziptang Member

    So, are you willing to now admit that suggestive lyrics in music advocating rape or criminal activity against police causes those acts to happen? Kids listen to that crap and go out and do it? Violent video games? Movies? Hmmmm?

    That's what you're saying, isn't it? Hollywood is responsible for it's vile content?
  21. new guy Member

    It seems from the info ITT that jarad was a republican voting leftist pothead.
    Most confusing.
    I look forward to intelligent articulate debate returning to the u.s political scene.
    And hopefully this thread as well.
    I hate the teaparty,but the vast majority I assume are saddened and shocked just like everyone else.
  22. ziptang Member

    Despite the hate, thanks. We are.
  23. eddieVroom Member

  24. ziptang Member

    Here's another one of those Eeeeeeevil Target maps. Oops, wait....... This is a Democrat map.....
    Never mind...

    • Like Like x 2
  25. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Hitler was no conservative, as conservatism has historically been argued. He was a power-mongering demagogue; pin him on whomever you like, but his ideas and approach are entirely foreign to ideological conservatism, which has (prior to the past few decades) been an expression of individualism, not collectivism.

    Obviously, the left (whatever that means, exactly) isn't going to want him, either, and to simply call him a "leftie" is a gross oversimplification, too.

    The productive approach, IMO, is to analyze Germany in the first half of the 20th Century and then what Hitler did/said which got him results, and then hopefully see how/why that happened, and spend little/no time arguing over what semantic label to hang on one man. The principles are the thing, not the personalities. Personalities are unique and vanish in a few decades; principles abide.
    • Like Like x 1
  26. new guy Member

    ^^^There is a distinct lack of crosshairs in that pic.
    But the use of the word enemy is unfortunate.
    But let's not bicker and argue over who killed who.
  27. the anti Member

    now the question is, who made that? and who is connected to the making of that image?
  28. ziptang Member

    Johnny, you forgot to mention the truly damning evidence, his lockstep following of the Tea Party by dressing up as a Grim Reaper and burning the American flag as well as keeping an occult alter complete with human skull in his back yard.
  29. ziptang Member

    Those are targets on that map.
  30. ziptang Member

  31. Miranda Member

    Ziptang, as you know I think you're a reasonable person, and I'm not accusing you personally of advocating violence. But about the Democrats' map: it targets states, not individuals, and does not include cross-hairs. Palin's map (despite weak defenses that "they were cross-hairs as in surveying!") specifically named individuals who voted for health care and placed gun sights on their locations. I'll concede that the word "target" and the target image are featured on the map you quoted. And I'd say maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea for everyone to rethink that metaphor given current circumstances. But when I compare the rhetoric on the Left to what's on Rush Limbaugh's site, for example--Al Gore with "Armageddon" over his head, "The Last Man Standing," "Death Panels"--then add Glen Beck into the mix... There just isn't any comparison. The Democrats' constituents are less likely to be responsive to gun and war talk--if for that reason only, it happens less often on that side of things.

    And this is beside the point. What people at the other end of the political spectrum do is irrelevant to the fact that continual references to guns and wars and targets have riled a lot of people up, and death threats have ensued--and now, murders. Of course Palin et al shouldn't go to prison because of these murders. They should be called to account, though--they are not blameless in this.

    The only thing I'd add is that I sympathize with Republicans like the one I heard on the radio today lamenting that she felt her party had abandoned her in its pandering to the far right. The comparison was made to the Black Panthers and SDS. The FBI surveilled those groups, for good reason--I say that despite my sympathies for much of what they stood for. Let's hope law enforcement is keeping an eye on similarly violent elements today. If there's a problem with people like me getting so heated about this issue, it is that it tends to further polarize the discussion by backing the other side into a corner, from which place all they can do is lash out.
    • Like Like x 1
  32. andonanon Member

    I disagree with the bolded text. My understanding is that ideological conservatism was historically based on support of the pillars of state power, ie the king(or the state itself in countries with no monarchy), the church, and the industrial or landowning class. That hasn't really changed much over the years.

    That said, I recognize that WWP tends to have a left-ward slant and wish that rightists were welcomed more, as long as they find common cause with the main activities here.

    Here is one analysis of where Hitler fit on the political spectrum. I don't buy it 100% but I am in general agreement that Hitler was to the extreme right.

  33. ziptang Member

    Miranda, what about my question of the violence in movies, video games, and music? Way more in quantity and way more descriptive than anything you can show from the realm of politics. Why no condemnation of Hollywood/entertainment for this? If it turns out that Jarod plays Halo, what then? I'll tell you what, it will still be Palin's fault.

    That would be intellectually dishonest and flat out bullshit. NOTHING that is in evidence shows any connection to the Right other than the shrill accusations from the left.
  34. ziptang Member

    LOL. Fail post is fail. Nazi-ism promoted individualism??????? BWAHAHAHAHAHA... That list is a fucking joke.
    • Like Like x 1
  35. Hitler was a reactionary who wanted to go back to a great Prussian empire in an idealized vision of a past that never actually happened.
    Tea party is essentially the same deal, they want to go back to their fantasized version of the time when the United States were founded.
    Different time, different bullshit, same method.

    People tend to dream that past was a better place, but delusion is the stuff nightmares are made from.

    Conservatism means being opposed to drastic changes, contrary to progressiveness.
    It's theory is that the complexity of a society is so huge that changing too much in too little time causes unforeseen (negative) consequences.
    The con of such argument is that society already changes very fast beyond the governments control. A progressive stance is that a government should support the changes in society instead of trying to suppress them.

    Conservatism is not based on a social-economic model, but is a more a philosophy of what a good government is supposed to do.
    In China/Vietnam a conservative policy means something completely different than in US/EU.
  36. Herro Member

    Yeah but those are like targets you would use for archery. Bow and arrows are much dangerous than guns!!

    Nah but seriously, keep up the good work in this thread. You're pwnin mothafuckas up in here. :)
    • Like Like x 1
  37. BusinessBecky Member

    If you say something often enough, long enough, and load enough, you will get the Democratic party. This is why marijuana should be legalized, so they will be to high to remember about Tuesday mornings.
  38. LRonAnon Member

    I believe my comment was poised appropriately; we are discussing the cause and effects of rhetoric and I was simply pointing out that this conversation has real-world ramifications that extend beyond the slim confines of this thread. – Other than that I think it best not to challenge your notations.

    While there will be a great effort made to place blame for this incident, the responsibility for this event lies solely with the shooter. Nonetheless there will be demands to place blame and political efforts to “fix” a problem that is not so easily solved.

    This event began somewhere between the age 15-19, right on schedule. While there is common symptomology that you can expect to manifest, the focus and finer point are always unique to the individual influenced by everything they have ever experienced. Once a focus has developed within the individual you’ll be hard pressed change the patterns without proper treatment. We’ve witnessed an episodic manifestation here before.

    I’m sure they will find many instances where this kid could/should have been caught by the system but for whatever reason he slipped through the cracks as many do. Contrary to what people might expect you can’t catch everyone; you just cannot do it without extreme measures.

    I think that you’ll find that my first post in this thread will be supported by the facts in the end. If people are looking to lay political blame, they’ll need to go considerably wider than the scope of the current discussion. And even then, they’re looking in the wrong place. There are things in this world we cannot control despite our very best effort.

    -- just a guess ;)
    • Like Like x 3
  39. Miranda Member

    Questions have been raised about the relationship between crime and violent games and films. While I think it's pointless to discuss "what if" this particular murderer played Halo, I will return to the point that the same kinds of questions are now being raised about the relationship between violence and political rhetoric--which is a much more direct incitement to violence than either films or games. Why? Because the rhetoric is included in persuasive speeches that are intended to exhort people to action in the real world. Games and films are entertainment and are explicitly forms of fantasy--not exhortations. I don't have any particular opinion on whether violence in entertainment leads to violent acts--but I do think there is a significant difference in the type of message that is sent by politicians, vs. the imagery or situations included in fictional games or films. In fact, that is one of the uses of fiction and art in general--to allow us to vicariously experience aspects of life without actually being there.

    I'm sure someone else could give you a better argument about this, but that's how I see it.
    • Like Like x 3
  40. andonanon Member

    Glad you are enjoying a laugh at my expense.

    Yes, I am not 100% happy with that list, as I already said, but I didn't have time to find anything better.

    The source of that list did discuss by what he meant by the use of the terms individualism and collectivism.

    Individualism in this sense refers to concentration of power in one individual not individual liberties as you are thinking.
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