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Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

Discussion in 'Support Questions' started by sue, May 24, 2010.

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Which of the following statements are true to you ? MULTIPLE CHOICE

Poll closed Jun 2, 2010.
1) Moderators need to take an active and neutral role in discussions. 78 vote(s) 61.4%
1) Moderators should not post and only infract, ban or move posts. 13 vote(s) 10.2%
2) Moderators should troll less. 52 vote(s) 40.9%
2) Moderators should troll more. 35 vote(s) 27.6%
3) Forum users should do their part on making the community better 98 vote(s) 77.2%
3) Only moderators can make the community better. It is their responsibility. 9 vote(s) 7.1%
4) O$a, Dav1d Miscarriage punchbag are wordplays i can appreciate, they add value to one's comments. 33 vote(s) 26.0%
4) Insistently repeating O$a, Dav1d Miscarriage punchbag is annoying and should not be encouraged. 54 vote(s) 42.5%
5) Flaming each other on the forums helps prepare someone for dealing with bullbaiting. 37 vote(s) 29.1%
5) Flaming each other over non issues, has no value, is unpleasant and should not be done. 62 vote(s) 48.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. sue Administrator

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    Having most content hidden from the public would really bring a lot of problems. We'd lose an audience.
  2. Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    There is a problem if mods view themselves as being in loco parentis in relation to the rest of the community.

    The problem with that is that there are so many bad parents around - parental behaviour ranges from educated, enlightened and gentle guidance to the most extreme sadistic savagery and tyranny.

    This, by itself, may account for any inconsistency in applying rules - which are, as we know, 'for the guidance of the wise and the obedience of the foolish'. In other words, adopting the role of parent here is no guarantee of fairness, or indeed of anything predictable.

    The greatest challenge mods face is to be adult in their interactions with posters here, to operate consistently from the baseline that they are conducting a dialog with their peer, even when (or especially when) the evidence may suggest otherwise.

    To illustrate the difference, mods sometimes refer to infractions as a 'slap on the wrist'. The image of one fully-grown adult administering such a slap to another adult is incongruous and bizarre (not forgetting that, to some of us at least, adults slapping children is no less so).
  3. Anonymous Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    yup dissecting common metaphors is really productive here.
  4. eddieVroom Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    FIFY.
  5. Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    We shall see.
  6. Anonymous Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    I thought a lot of the problem was that some of the stuff WAS in public view.

    Ultimately it would be a judgment call as to what the optimum relationship between public and hidden info would be. Maybe some kind of moderated cross posting from private to public areas.

    What is the "valuable product " of this website? Is there more than one valuable product? Is it possible to produce all the products in the same place?

    Most enterprises that produce products for public consumption have public and backstage areas. Almost all business is "show business" to one degree or the other.

    WWP is like a butcher shop. All the customers, the butchers and the pigs are using the same entrance. Pigs are squealing. There's sullen looking guy in a bloody apron with a meat cleaver eyeing everyone who walks in. The people behind the counter ignore the customers and make stupid inside jokes nobody gets. There's a pile a shit in the corner that came out the intestines cleaned to make sausage casings. The butcher's wife is franticly digging through the pile with her bare hands looking for a diamond ring one of the pigs swallowed.

    I am not sure if I believe the above description of WWP is true. But I get the impression a lot of people must think it is true.

    How can you attract customers, produce a useful product, keep the employees and management happy all at the same time? All I am doing is brainstorming. I am sure you all have more experience running a website than me (since I have none).
  7. Anonymous Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    Who is the fool here, the fool or the one who follows the fool? Where you see problems, I see issues. Where you see inconsistency, I see mystery. I do not think the mods are considering their roles to be parents to be part of the job description, though it seems they have a need to be a nurturing party trying to induce an environment of a developmental atmosphere and synergy. This is due to a complete meltdown of the user base and it incohesive shadow pictures of prophecies just waiting to be fulfilled.
    The mods to not want to hold your hands when you type, they don't know where they have been. You are misunderstanding the idiom. adults slapping children is psychologically sound in instances where the child cause pain or injury to another. The child will be able to understand the pain they inflict on another. Though punishments for thing like bad grades or lack of obedience can be taken care of through education and group activities. Sometimes job related chores can be administered. Mods are not perfect and are learning machines just like the rest of us wogs and SPs. If someone is not consistent, does not automatically mean they should be classified as a liar or bigot.

    If a mod wants to know how to moderate. Take a look at Scientology and don't do what it does, instead see how other forums operate. This does not include ESMB.

    I like the thumbs thing sounds experimental and fun. I just can't wait to see how it gets exploited.
  8. Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    I don't want to derail by debating the circumstances under which physical violence against children could be considered justifiable or 'psychologically sound'. Let's just say we simply disagree.

    You say that mods don't want to assume the role of parents, but my post was a response to Sue's post I quoted, where he mentions that it is a comparable situation, in some ways at least.

    I did not say or imply that any mod should be 'classsified as a liar or a bigot' - don't know where you got that from.
  9. Anonymous Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    Now anonymous is supporting child abuse as being "psychologically sound" - FFS
  10. Anonymous Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    I think this varies between the mods, because some mods have been getting "creative" with infracting, in other words giving infractions for stuff which isn't really against the rules as they're written today but rather against the rules that the mod wishes for the future/disagrees with the post/got drunk. Or it could also be because the same mods handle more complicated cases that the other mods don't act on because they don't know how. Or maybe a combination of both?
  11. BLiP Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    WWP is getting more and more like an Org every day.
  12. Anonymous Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    A new godwins law has appeared.
    At some point someone will mention a parenting metaphor.
    Don't want to see the new rules bogged down by detail.
    This diverse group has been effective,regardless of tinfoil/moonbats and bad grammer.
    I think the rules as they stand do need some small modification(no pun intended) but are still ok.
    Infractions for bad spelling mistakes or a lol xenu is in my opinion not important and should not be considered for a rule.
    If a troll is using the make post anon option and is infracted,their use of the anon option should be stopped for the duration of the infraction.also more domelocking.
    Don't want to see a moonbat witch hunt.
  13. Anonymous Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    FFS, chill and realize that mods are doing a thankless and crappy job for free.

    'OMG the mods have personalities, they are not robots' - WTF?

    Life is awesome but not predictable; if you stop bitching about the small stuff in life, you will open up this huge amount of time and headspace for your personal enjoyment.

    It will benefit you in the long run.

    Peace.
  14. Anonymous Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    my money would be on he's trollin you son
    and if not a troll, well, he thinks the user base has completely melted down and is waiting for prophecies to be fulfilled, so possibly crazy
    either way
  15. Anonymous Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    BEST METAPHOR EVER
  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    Lulz aplenty until:

    Wait, what?

    Valuable Product?

    Did I sign a Billion Year Contract when I wasn't looking?

    Alright, here's your VFPs as I see them. All three of them:

    1.) Lulz

    2.) Scientology going down the shitter.

    3.) Moar lulz.

    And this site has delivered on all three consistently.

    When did "We" start getting the idea that something's broken, anyway?
  17. El Diablo Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    Ahh okay...makes sense. Just it may be that not everyone wants their appeals to be public, and could in some cases increase the drive to be "right", rather than resolve the difference of opinion. Not always the case, but just I know that if I were appealing an infraction, I'd personally prefer it was done privately - even though others may not.

    Perhaps posting to an "appeals" thread by request could be an option?

    Anyway just an idea.
  18. Anonymous Member

  19. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    Not sure it has been proposed yet in this thread (AFAIR it was elsewhere): Don't let newcomers post for a given period, e.g. a week.
  20. Anonkey Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    Funny, coming from you. After all, I hear the mods are well paid to babysit every newcomer. How do all those hooligans get past the captcha btw?
  21. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    ?
  22. Anonkey Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    inorite?
  23. Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    .....So both the Pharm/ Psychs are not handing over my Paycheck.... but now whyweprotest... is trying to keep muh paycheck?!

    :(



    p.s.- If we were being paid.... I wouldn't be living wear I do....
    lol
  24. Anonkey Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    ^^ where do you live? cue creepy music plus unleashing the hounds
  25. chrisanon Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    I don't agree with this. People often lurk for quite a while before they ever post, and they cross the line from lurking to posting when they see something that makes them feel they just can't sit by another moment and they HAVE to post something NOW. Let them, I say.

    And the people who don't lurk and therefore post stupid stuff ("Are there any Scientology offices in the LA area? I've just been reading up on this awful group and I want to do something about them!) can be quite amusing.

    Also, there's no indication that new posters are especially moonbatty or idiotic, so I'm not sure any reforms should be aimed especially at them.
  26. Rockyj Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    Question is there an easier way to keep important info threads for people who first visit here to read? Basically, OP threads that involve political figures & info & factual information about Co$ that public & journalists, etc. would be very interested in could be instantly directed to without having to go through a mountain of threads?
    Yes, I know they are categorized & all the lurk moar but to someone just visiting here it may be overwhelming. Just saying...
  27. mirror neuron Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    I don't think that withholding information or silencing new posters, even for a time, would be constructive. I'd rather see clear and consistent expectations of posters, mods and non-mods alike. If you want to bring new posters up to speed, a tutorial or discussion thread specifically for newcomers seems more appropriate, though I don't know about those ideas either.
  28. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    First, it would certainly reduce the spam and the complete off-topic content.
    Second, those who are lurking before registering would do it the other way round. No big deal here.

    TL;DR Easy to implement (I guess), reduction of staff effort, no visible loss.
  29. Anonymous Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    I know you probably mean well, but we're not supposed to be an insular little group who sit around chitchatting with trolls who are too bored to troll anything but our own forums, and constantly panic about being seen as too anti-Scientology by the public (heh). You can do that in IRC.

    I want somebody who has time-critical intel to be able to register and post it right away. Same for just plain old joining the forums - or we risk people losing interest. The captcha and limitations on signatures for new users is good for fighting spam - but being able to post right away is important. It would only become a problem if we had too few mods, and no registered users around to report posts.
  30. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    Can you cite one occurrence of a time-critical intel provided by a newcomer ? I cannot.
  31. Anonymous Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    Would be supurb if we could distil and maintain such info in the wiki.
  32. Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    Conclusion:

    Mods cannot just be a machine, spitting out the result of rules applied to a situation with a 100% foreseeable outcome.

    Hell, countries are unable to formulate even simple rules that can simply be applied per automatic.

    Mods/admins/owners have got to come to terms with the fact that they are in fact leaders to some extent, man the fuck up and start moderating based on what they think is fitting for the board.

    A set of loose rules can be set up, to make sure the mods/admins/owners are not doing this entirely arbitrarily, but forget about having rules set in stone.

    There are no absolute truths when it comes to moderating this forum, you cannot make everyone happy all of the time.
  33. Anonymous Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    So long as that perspective of leadership is strictly restricted to the board, and does not extend to off-WWP drama, etc - then very much what the furry abomination said.
  34. chrisanon Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    I simply disagree. Mods are not leaders. They are facilitators.

    It is up to the users to demonstrate, through the posts they mock, debate, agree with, and discuss, what is fitting for the board. Mods are here to support us, not rule us. They can't give us what we won't give ourselves.

    If a poster claims that Scilons poisoned his Rottweiler, demand evidence. If that poster is too far gone even to understand the word "evidence", ignore his insane, yet tragically touching, thread. If there are threads you hate ("Marty again?!?") don't read them. If you think you're seeing too much tinfoil, confront the poster directly; why do you need a mod to combat it?

    Almost everyone here is capable of countering outrageous statements, demanding proof for claims asserted as fact, and debating issues. I don't understand the expectation that someone else should do that for us, and that that someone should have enforcement powers.

    Rule-enforcers do not determine the character of a neighborhood; residents do. Vigorous policing will not turn the Sudan into Norway, and heavy-handed modding, or long lists of guidelines about what's acceptable to post, will not create a certain kind of community on this board.
  35. Anonymous Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    Rule enforcer != community leader.
  36. Anonymous Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    chrisanon, you're right that mods should support rather than rule, but there's lots of room between "heavy-handed modding" and "where's a mod when you need one?" and between "long lists of guidelines..." and a few vague rules that are unnecessarily confusing to newcomers. It isn't a question of rulers or hands-off but of identifying an appropriate degree of intervention that will allow consistency and justify necessary actions, and of clarifying the nature and purpose of each rule to allow flexibility (furfag's earlier post).
  37. Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    I'd rather have a site where forum operators are not afraid to take action and openly mock people they see as retarded beyond belief, than a site with no direction, no leadership, and some janitors who wipe up the puke that falls into some strict category. And don't give me the ideology-babble about herding cats; There's only rats left here, and nothing wrong with pointing at where the fucking cheese is, so we don't have to chew through sludgy sewage all day.

    This site was once awesome to be part of, now I don't even tell anyone I am here anymore because it's gone from sexy to downright embarrassing to associate oneself with. But there are still glimmers of hope.

    Seeing Hamburg and New York still doing it right in their awesome ways, for example, gets drowned in speculation and debate about topics about Scientology that even fucking Scientologists would rather choke on their own vomit than be forced to read.

    You can't write precise rules on how to regulate this, which is why I suggest a few rules or guidelines, principles if you will, that it will be up to the mods to interpret.

    I guess we disagree on what a mod should do, but I think your idea of a mod is what is wearing mods down.

    Edit 1: My stance on this has been made intentionally extreme for the sake of clarity.
    Edit 2: And thanks to the 2 anon posters above for clarification.
  38. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    Funny how some people - mainly domers - repeat this relentlessly... but stay around. Strange.
  39. Anonymous Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]


    What part of "there are still glimmers of hope" do you need help translating?
  40. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Community and Moderation discussion [Added POLL]

    I get it and wish you the best of luck...

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