Clearwater April 16 & 17 postgame: Cultwatch Anniversary

Discussion in 'USA - East Coast' started by anonymous612, Apr 17, 2011.

  1. RightOn Member

    Like I said before, some do not have that choice.
    Also I do not have to respect that choice when abuse is involved. sorry.
    An organization can not use a religious cloak to abuse people.
    Where is the cut off for what is considered abuse? COS doesn't seem to have one for mental and physical abuse.
    This is the USA and they must live under wog law. Not Scientology law, and I am working to change that

    now I am really leaving. lol
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  2. Anonymous Member

    Well, the thing is I would much rather see them recruit an "almost senior" than a child, especially if the senior is a dedicated Scientologist. I really do not see much wrong there.

  3. Anonymous Member

    What is abuse? If a person joins the Marine Corps, are they abused in boot camp? There is a film about the Australian Special Forces. Watch that if you want to see abuse. A person has the right to take on a tough job in tough conditions. The only fair requirement is that should be able to walk out the door.

  4. RightOn Member

    the wrong is the abuse. and they do not know they will be abused.
    You can't possibly think it is alright for an adult or anyone for that matter to sign up for something where there is obvious documented rampant abuse?
    byeeeeee we will chat later
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  5. Anonymous Member

    SAS - The Search for Warriors

  6. lostatsea Member

    Yeah, but I'm not telling the whole story. Not comfortable telling much specific detail, but I guess I can say he/she was not in good health to begin with, was not treated well after recruited (surprise, surprise), had to do some pretty intense manual labor for an elderly person (without rest or a day off), was not allowed to talk to concerned family members without being monitored, and was not allowed to leave---had to escape. So there was a lot wrong there.

    But, I do agree recruiting children is worse.
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  7. RightOn Member

    sooo where did we leave off?
    I still would like to know what sort of plan would work as far as "cleaning up" the Sea Org.
    And also why did you and your husband leave staff?
  8. Paladin Member

    I understand that Scientology works for you and you want to reform your church to stop abuses. Scientology's goal is to get people on and up the Bridge as fast as possible to save this planet. It is this goal that is creating the abuse. Many people are looking for answers to life and a purpose for their own lives. If individuals become convinced that Scientology fills these needs they can become willing slaves to Scientology's demands. They willingly give up money, time, family, freedom. This creates a crazy situation where some people are hurt so that other people can be helped. I don't see how you can separate Scientology's abuse from Scientology's goal.
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  9. It's really simple..... Here's the one thing to prove Scientology is being Squirreled.

    Use PTS/SP course in Real Life. Seriously....

    Apply the tech when Protesters come, and watch it not work. If Scientology gave you tools that work all the time, then why is Anonymous still here? Your cult HAS FUCKING tools for dealing with people like us but they don't work. You are encouraged to IGNORE us. Tom Cruise said it, and lot's of other exes know about it. "PTS/SP It's not how to run away from suppression. It's how to Confront and Shatter it."

    In my own experience, the Dallas Org never come out to talk and have a chat. They ignore their Communication tech, and the PTS/SP tech, and that is why protesters grow every month we are out there.No Confront, no Handling the problem. Your own tech stats, "To the degree we can communicate, we are alive." and "The degree of complexity is proportional to the degree of non confront." By LRH's own words, noot communicating, increases complexity of a problem. LRH TOLD YOU AND YOU STRAIGHT UP IGNORE HIM!!!! IF YOU CAN'T KEEP YOUR TECH WHAT MAKES YOU THINK YOU'LL EVER CLEAR THE PLANET?!?

    Just remember, Scientology was never about referring people to the local ideal org for dissemination. It wasn't about having a list of websites that were created and supported by Scientologists to refer someone to when they had a question about Youth, or Psychiatry. It was about applying the tech, and letting other people see how happy and successful you are, and you being able to explain how you apply the tech.

    Now you toe a party line, telling people, "check out this website, it has all the details"
    "Yeah that's great, but I wasn't asking what Scientology as a whole thought... I was asking how YOU felt about it. And if I ask a bunch of Scientologists and they all say the same 'Oh you can learn more at this website' That really comes off as creepy. What is your individual view on the subject? Or do you really think exactly the same as everyone else in your religion?"

    Think about it.... The answer to Why We Protest. It's not completely about us. We really do it for you, so you can realize the mistake you made, and learn that the scary wog world isn't that bad. There are better things to do in life besides work on staff, sleep communally and push every Thursday at 2:00 to get upstat. As Tory Magoo says, "Come on out, we're having a great time."
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  10. over9000OT Member

    The differences between the military and the Sea Arrrgghhh could fill a book.
    To start, in the military:
    1. You know exactly what you are getting into
    2. You are paid at a level commensurate with your level of responsibility and technical skill
    3. You have actual benefits, instead of rice, beans and enforced abortion
    4. If you are mistreated, you have recourse
    5. Your personal success is not based on how many recruits your unit pulled in
    6. You are given a set amount of leave each year, 30 days (plus numerous four day weekends and passes) in the US military
    7. You marry, live away from other members of the military and leave when your term of service is complete
    8. You sign a real contract, as opposed to the laughable bajillion year "contract"
    9. The military learned that abuse is largely ineffective. They learned from their mistakes. Sea Tards? Not so much...

    I could go on, but you're not going to answer me anyway so there's no point. Not when you can use the copyrighted Scilon Ignoretech.
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  11. amaX Member

    I don't need you editing my posts, asshole.
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  12. Anonymous Member

    Raise your hand if you see what is happening here.

    I am the one who is talking to you. I am the one that is confronting you. So don't tell me how I don't and won't :)

    I would have been happy to park my car and come over to say hello and, if I were alone, I would have. I am sad that most Scientologists are so chicken-shit. I don't know why but I guess some are afraid, most don't give a shit about you or your signs, many don't want to be bothered with upsetting there little Scientology world, and, yes, the Church frowns on it. But that is the problem, isn't it. Scientologists, in general, care way too much about what the Church frowns on and what the Church approves of. Perhaps that is just human nature; to want to be part of a group and to conform to the group mores.

    Also, please don't build up strawman Scientologists that you can then knock down. I am in that "scary wog world" every day and so are most Scientologists. I am successful in it also. And I am having a blast. And so are many Scientologists. I could make obvious comparisons about who is really out there in the "wog world" and who is sitting in front of a computer playing WoW but that would be more stereotyping and I am not about stereotyping.

    And for those that want me to get all touchy-feely about my own experiences and "wins" in Scientology, no. Just, no. One-on-one I would be happy to, but not here. Listen, all Scientology gains are subjective gains. They might have outward manifestation but they are subjective gains. And I think that most Scientologists have had sufficient subjective gains to feel that Scientology has value and is worth pursuing. And those that haven't, don't. So what? They can go do something else or nothing else.

    I think I have been fairly forthright with you, more forthright than some here deserve based on their attitude toward me. That is OK. I am going to leave you with one thought.

    How many of you could take off your mask, walk around the corner, and strike up a conversation with that Sea Orger standing there without betraying your prejudice against what that person believes and holds dear? If you could really pull that off, you might learn something interesting. But it would be hard to pull off. You would have to stay strictly neutral, interested, and friendly. Just making small talk. You could ask hard questions but you would have to be clever about it. Like a hunter stalking prey. Might be a fun game. IDK. But you might hear something that does not agree with what you have heard from the disaffected.

    Peace, out.
  13. amaX Member

    I hope you're going to read this, ASS. No OSA guard is EVER going to allow a Sea Org member to talk to anyone with or without a mask. They're not allowed to talk to us. They can't strike up a conversation with anyone on the sidewalk. I've lived in this area for a long time. I've walked and ridden a bike through downtown many times before Chanology started. There's no friendly hellos or a chance for a casual conversation. Ever.

    I'd love to be able to talk to the Sea Org. You should see how quickly the cops are called when I say things like this, "If you're so strong in your faith then you should be able to read my signs or talk to me." The BEST thing we can yell at the Sea Org is this: "Dial 1-866-X-SEA ORG for help to blow!" Why? Because we know of at least one Sea Org who realized he was being lied to about what Anonymous was doing because he knew that number was for help. He blew after doing the old bait-and-switch with his visa and ran with nearly no money. Ran for his life. They came after him repeatedly. He's too afraid to protest with us.

    Here's the thing, ASS. At this point, what we're doing is making your cult completely implode. It's splintering and falling apart. We don't care if the whole thing falls apart as long as the abuses end. If you Scientologists want to save your cult then you had better start changing it immediately or you won't have anything left...except maybe to travel to Texas and pay Rathbun for courses.

    It's up to YOU and your fellow members to stop the abuses and salvage what you can of the whole mess.
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  14. Anonymous Member

    You totally missed my point and only chronicle your own failure at communicating with Scientologists. My comment was not directed at you.

  15. Oh don't worry... You are definitely the Exception... not the rule.

    "The first determination... which leads to aberation is the decision, to be human"-LRH Advanced Axioms and Procedures Page 8

    See I can quote LRH too! It wouldn't be so much of a problem that others are chicken shit, or afraid or whatever. But what does it say about your tech when there is clearly a Training Rundown to handle us, and you DELIBERATELY choose not to? You are different from them. Why is that? Why do you have the power to come here and confront and shatter suppression but the others don't? As you say it's human, but the whole point of Scientology is to help build you into a more better, able Homo Novis. So you are more able... but why are the others cowards? Who is applying the tech correctly, You? or the others?

    As addressed above, I was talking about my own interaction with Dallas Scientologists. It's not exactly a strawman Argument for what you say, but I was speaking about Scientologoists I've actually seen

    I still don't see how you can't talk about them here. Okay they may be subjegtive, but we don't only rely on Stats like some Orgs do. We can understand a "subjective" Gain. Tell us about it anyways. After all, if you can't tell us about it, what are you going to tell someone who is generally interested? You'll talk to them 1 to 1? Then Allow me to open it up for PM if it's so metaphysical that you can't post it in this thread.

    It's very easy to do that.... It's called playing the Devil's Advocate. An old practice of taking a stance against something you believe in to see how someone against you would attempt to counter or poke holes in your belief. I have spoken to Scientologists without a mask. And let me ask you a question: During a stress test, The scientologists centers a needle while you hold the cans. Apparently if the needle climbs to the right, that indicates stress. Now speaking from a Science field.... usually when a needle is centered, and then goes LEFT instead of right, that usually indicates a negative reading, or in this case, "anti stress" if you will. However, on the e-meter, going left means you have witholds. Let me ask you this then:

    Why does the emeter's reading only detecting Apprehension/ stress, and witholds? Why does it not detect happiness, or calm, or excitement? Why are you either stressed or a liar?
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  16. Anonymous Member

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  17. amaX Member

    You suck at spinning things to make yourself look good. I didn't miss your point and anyone can respond to any comment posted on this forum. I haven't failed at communicating with all Sea Org. Yelling out the toll free number for help to blow actually lead to a Sea Org member blowing when he realized that he was being lied to about everything. Two of the signs that I've made up seem to have an impact on Sea Org, too. It always does my heart good to see Sea Org members mouthing these words: "HOW WOULD YOU LEAVE SEA ORG IF YOU CHANGED YOUR MIND?" or "WHAT IS YOUR SEA ORG RETIREMENT PLAN?" Sea Org haven't been allowed to speak to the general public since they stopped them from going door-to-door soliciting like the Jehovah's Witnesses. In fact, the first Scientologists I ever met were going door-to-door. I've lived here a long time.

    Don't say you weren't warned to change your cult before it implodes.
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  18. Anonymous Member

    Well, that is good since that is not my intent.

    Sure, you can respond but I do not think you have it in your heart to bury your animosity deep enough to be able to pull off what I suggest. That is why my comment was not directed at you. That and the fact that you tend to spew.

    I do not live in Clearwater and have not spent much time at Flag in years but, in my driving around over the weekend, I saw Sea Org members that looked approachable and I know for a fact they are approachable at other Sea Org bases so I am confident that if you went over there on a weekday, you would find plenty to talk to. They probably clam up (LOL) during your protests but are more accessible at other times.

    Anyway, this could go on interminably, so Have a Nice Day!
  19. RightOn Member

    heyy wait..... dont leave
    I was wondering why you and your husband left Sea Org Staff and also your ideas to clean up the Sea Org?
  20. Anonymous Member

  21. Darth Xander Member

    Amalgamation of a couple of conversations I've had with Scientologists:

    Q: Hello Scientologist/Sea Org member. I have some grave concerns about what's going on in Scientology based on accounts I've read in the New Yorker and the St. Pete Times. What's your take on those stories?
    A: I don't know what you're talking about. But if you come inside the Org, I'll show you a video about Scientology.
    Q: Yes, I know all about Scientology. Doesn't it concern you that there are multiple ex-members all telling the same story about COB beating people up and nothing being done about it?
    A: How do you know it happened if you weren't there?
    Q: How do you know what has happened in the past if not for reading about it in a book?
    A: Oh, you know don't you?
    Q: Can I get a copy of Ron's Journal 67?
    A: Ummmmm, I'll look into it.
    Q: Would you listen to an audio recording of LRH denying the existence of Christ?
    A: My founder would never say that.
    Q: Will you listen though?
    A: I think its time for you to go.

    What's the point of talking to someone who doesn't know anything about 1) what Scientology really believes and 2) is prohibited from reading anything critical of Scientology? As AMA alludes to, our purpose is to get information to those who don't have it.
    • Like Like x 6
  22. over9000OT Member

    Not that you're going to address a single thing that I say but your above "point" is laughable. Look, if any other business on the planet had a business model like Scientology's, it would go just as broke as Scientology will be within the decade. Acknowledging that this may not be the best parallel, perhaps I might compare Scientology to a gym. If I were to offer a free session at the gym with one of my trainers and that trainer could show you that you were weak and needed to get into shape, I would have a decent chance of getting you to pay for a membership. So, you work out at my gym under the supervision of my trainers and, after a few weeks of working out, you notice that you really aren't making any gains (moar like wins, amirite?) so you mention that to one of my staff. My staff lets you know it's because you aren't working hard enough and need some additional sessions at the gym. You sign up for them, shell out the money and faithfully attend all of your gym sessions but, still, notice no gains. Maybe my staff mentions that its influences from the gyms your family members and friends attend and maybe you should stop talking to them about their gyms. Guess what? This is where most rational human beings STOP GOING TO THAT GYM! Whatever methods you have, whatever regimen you've planned is clearly a failure. But, oh no, you can't leave my gym, you've agreed to a membership and I'm going to keep taking your money or stick you with a massive cancellation fee. Also, if you leave, I'm going to plaster images of your fat ass all over your neighbourhood and tell everyone that you are a flabby pussy. Then I'm going to call your boss and tell him that you are overeating, smoking, drinking and intentionally not exercising just to drive your insurance costs up. I'm also going to call your family and tell them that you intentionally quit going to the gym because you want to die early. Sounds crazy, right? Right.

    Guess what douchebag? I have spoken with Scientologists without my mask. I am not aware of any Sea Org in my city so I don't have the option of engaging them. However, it is my experience that Scientologists are highly engaging, right up until you ask them anything that even slightly questions their beliefs. It may be hard to believe, given how much of my ass I've shown in this thread, but I am totally capable of taking the middle ground and listening critically without injecting my own beliefs. The fact is, my job is highly intellectual and I am used to dealing with people that wish to have their views and opinions challenged. It's called intellectual scrutiny and it tends to bring the facts out into the light where they can be handled (see what I did thar?). Scientology, and Scientologists, cannot stand that intellectual scrutiny. Your "religion" encourages people to be hostile when they are asked a difficult question. Why?

    I'm sure my wall o' text has already put someone to sleep but let me tell you a little story. I was raised in a Christian home. In my teens and early 20s, I began to experience some serious doubt concerning Christianity as a whole so I visited the pastor of my parent's church to discuss my feelings. Other than the standard "We all go through periods where our faith is challenged", the pastor happily answered my questions concerning the inconsistencies I saw in the faith and the Bible. When I was done, I shook his hand and walked out of the church convinced that I was not a Christian. Though I felt fairly well-versed in other religions, I made the rounds of many of them over the next few years to see if they had any direction for me in my quest for spiritual enlightenment. I visited a synagogue, temples of multiple faiths and mosques as well as atheist and agnostic gatherings. One thing I experienced as I visited them all was a willingness to discuss all of the tenets of their various faiths for free. Not once was I told to GTFO, though I asked some pretty tough questions. I was invited to attend services. I was invited to ask questions of the members of the congregations. I was given religious materials, sometimes their actual holy book, to take home and review. And no one asked me to leave my contact info. Nor was I charged anything.

    Now, all that said, why wouldn't I take exception to a cult that charges exorbitant sums of money to learn what other religions offered for free? Why wouldn't I be befuddled at the same cult hiding its religious texts from the curious or lay? Why wouldn't I be surprised when I asked similar questions of Scientologists and be told that I was, essentially, evil for asking them? I could go on but, again, you aren't going to answer any of my questions anyway. So much for communicating, eh?

    By the way, your gym sucks.
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  23. Anonymous Member

  24. Anonymous Member

    To fool yourself into believing that there are any "gains" to be had in scientology when all you have to do is look at ANY OT to see that their lives are messed up simply means that if you put any value in L Ron Hubbard's idea, you must be somewhat retarded, somewhat.

    For me - the bad outweighs the good. I'm doing everything in my power to disrupt, annoy, and suppress the cult, and it's working.

    And what is more - I'm doing it for the pure enjoyment of it. I love demonstrating how worthless scientology and dianetics is.
    • Like Like x 3
  25. Natter Bored Member

    ^ Very well said
    • Like Like x 3
  26. RightOn Member

    I would appreciate it if you came back.
    Again, I appreciate your willingness to come here and to talk. thank you

    I am curious about what you thought about the latest happening of John Allender who is an OTVIII showing up at Marty Rathbun's house with cameras strapped to their heads to harass him?

    Do you agree that member's money should be spent on sending people from San Jose, Florida and elsewhere to confront someone at their residence just because they are practicing Scientology in the privacy of their own homes?

    Other places COS member's money goes it to the "war chest"
    Do you agree that member's money should be spent to pay Scientology lawyers to file frivolis court cases? There were/are MANY.
    Yes I know many religions have a team of lawyers to defend themselves. But how many of these religions continually file friviolis lawsuits? (with of course the exception of the Westboro Baptist Church)

    Some posts back, you mentioned that it is an insult or whatever for Scientologists to except charity (sorry if I misworded that) and that getting tax exemption was not a charitble thing because you said the tax exemption was already decided. You do know that in order for the COS to get that tax exemption, they first had to file for it and ask to be tax exempt before it was decided?
    Isn't that ASKING for charity? If not, then why do you think it is not?
    And did you know how many court cases were filed against IRS employees by Scientology prior to that decision? And that the IRS agents were harrased? I think it was over 70 cases? (someone correct me on that number if I am wrong) COS ended uo paying a multi million dollar fine and had a "special agreement" with the IRS. why?
    The ONLY "church" that has special treatment. Why do you think that is?

    Also.. you mentioned that you had a friend that was OT, and of course speaking with other Scientologists (you mentioned that you asked them not to say anything about your discussion) about things that were not quite right or how you felt about DM? Aren't you at all concerned that you had to ask someone not to say anything? Wha do you fear? And why should you fear anything within a church?
    Is it because you can be labeled PTS? And lose many of your freinds? Because this is exactly what happens with discconection. If you yourself were a victim of any sort of disconnection just becasue you believed things were not up to snuff with the COS, would you then be willing to look further into what is wrong with the COS and why we fight it?

    again, sorry for all the questions, but I am not going to be online too much today and I wanted to get them all in.
    I hope you decide to stay and chat.
    • Like Like x 3
  27. Anonymous Member

    ARC break.
    Please choose your failure from here:
    · Amends
    · Rehabilitation
    · Confront
  28. amaX Member

    You obviously don't read what I write. I've lived here since the Sea Org walked around in faux naval uni's and went door-to-door soliciting. The first Sea Org I ever met came to my door. They had the same dead eyes as the moonies I'd met so I knew something was amiss. They only wanted to talk at me instead of talking with me. I've found that's the case with most Scientologists I've spoken to.

    I've ridden my bike through downtown for years going to a thrift store that sells used books very cheaply. This was long before Project Chanology and our Anonymous protests. I'd try to smile and say hello to them while we waited for lights to change and most of them never even made eye contact. Not a one of them ever spoke back.

    We actually had a Russian Sea Org female approach at us a recent protest. She had NO idea who we were. She thought we were street performers. She actually put one of the Guy Fawkes masks up on her face. She spoke very little English. We actually desperately tried to make her understand that she shouldn't be speaking to us and she did not understand. She begged to practice auditing on one of us. One of our Anons said yes. After they were almost done with the auditing session, four Sci's came rushing from different directions to get her. They surrounded her and marched her off. There was a sinking feeling in the pits of all our stomachs for this young woman.

    So, they're not allowed to talk to us at protests or on any given weekday. I know this for a fact.

    One more say I spew? Yes, it angers me that people like you don't do anything about the abuses within your organization and then come here to tell people that are desperately trying to help that we're doing everything wrong. If I didn't care so deeply about the people who are being hurt? I would not be doing this. I'm not here to hold your cyber hand and tell you that it's great that you deign to come here.
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  29. xenubarb Member

    Oh, use your brain. Fence. Inward facing spikes. WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK THOSE SPIKES ARE FOR?

    If one were to think about it;
    1. Base is full of Sea Org
    2. Sea Org live inside fence
    3. Sea Org reportedly not allowed off-base without permission.

    Let's try this again. Why would you put spikes on the inside of a fence housing people under totalitarian control?
    • Like Like x 3
  30. xenubarb Member

    What the fuck? Fifth assault for Anon, but assault accounts stretch way back to the 90s. So now CWPD is finally at the "one moar assault and that's it" stage?

    After nearly fifteen years of this shit? Suck!
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  31. xenubarb Member

    Well, if you weren't a total asshat, I'd tell you that this picture of the spectacular top spikes aren't the only security spikes on the fence. Across the street by the guard shack, there are smaller blades set on horizontal fence rails one might step up on to get over. And those smaller spikes all face inward where you would put your feet. But, since you're busy being the expert here, I won't bother.
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  32. amaX Member

    It is NOT the Clearwater Police Department that chooses to prosecute, Barb. That's up to the State's Attorney. The CPD has been willing to write up the previous assaults, but Anons chose NOT to file the reports due to different circumstances in each case. The CPD wrote up this assault and filed it.
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  33. Anonymous Member

    How dare you snip some of AnonMomAnon2's awesome post!? She has never once posted anything on this forum that was the least bit subjective or speculative to warrant such blasphemous behavior from you. Had you simply lurked moar you would know that AnonMomAnon2 is completely beyond reproach, she has been around forever, she never needs dox and she is not to be trifled with. She knows more than anyone else about the inner workings of Scientology from the daily routines and orders of all SeaOrg at Flag Land Base to what goes on behind the UltraBarrier at Gold Base, including but not limited to what color undies David Miscavige wears on any given day.

    This thread needs more obviously trolling uses of inappropriate question marks?
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  34. amaX Member

    Finally! Someone who appreciates me! Nice try with the DM undies thing though...he goes commando.
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  35. Anonymous Member

    Even better, you should see how those spikes are delivered. It's flat sheets of metal and you bend the spikes up when you install them on the fence. It is TOTALLY up to you to decide which side, or both sides, you wish to bend up so that they will deter climbing one, or both, side of the fence. Most companies that install them make you sign a waiver if you want both sides installed with the spikes up.

    Incidentally, they are not meant to prevent people from climbing the fence through injury, they are meant to keep people from climbing the fence because their clothes get hung up and they get stuck on the top of the fence.
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  36. AnonLover Member

    ITT, Clrwfags finally getting their fair share of verbal confront with a scilon other than Petey.

    and WINNING :)
  37. lostatsea Member

    Also--fence shaker alarms (or motion sensors?), on the inside of the fences. I've seen them referenced by ex-int base staff, and I remember seeing a photo somewhere. I'll look for it, but if anyone has one handy, that would be sweet.

    ETA: found it!

    from this general page:

    So.....Somewhat. Fence shaker/motion sensors. On the inside of the fence.

    Just saying.
  38. Anonymous Member

    Assuming that the left side of the path is Scilon property, why are the floodlights facing inward?
  39. Natter Bored Member

    So Sea Org can see any SPs that try to break into Gold at night to steal valuable Audio Visual equipment, e.g. SP felony theft of hard drives.
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  40. Darth Xander Member


    I believe you requested this photo. Finally got around to uploading it and a couple others from my phone to Flickr. Glad I got you on video asking the Sea Orgers why they celebrate Christmas and Easter in light of this quote. Very good question indeed.

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