Church of Scientology launches marriage rights bid

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by Anonymous, Oct 24, 2012.

  1. jensting Member

    Awesome! I like Mr Pickles :)
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. fishypants Moderator

    So is this Peter Hodkin's daughter or something?
  3. Random guy Member

    'this indeed!

    Much love for Mr. Pickles, bloody good show!
    • Funny Funny x 1
  4. RolandRB Member

    It would be a better show if he stopped them getting illegal mandatory charitable rates relief in the City of London, Westminster and Sunderland.
  5. Anonymous Member

    ^^^^ How many GBP per year?
  6. RolandRB Member

    £280K per year for CoLCorp, unknown but roughly £40K per year for Westminster and £6K per year for Sunderland.
  7. RolandRB Member

    Are they getting 100% rates relief now?

    5. This application is not concerned with any financial benefit to the Church of Scientology:
    this chapel is already exempt from rates on the local authority’s decision, as a charity.
    Others may or may not be exempt depending on the decision of the local authorities.
  8. wolfbane Member

    Is it perhaps timely to consider publishing an open letter to Mr. Pickles pointing that out? Maybe run it as full or half page ad in some paper where he is sure to see it?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. RolandRB Member

    55. She said that congregational services were an important feature in Scientology Churches.
    Such services in the Chapel in question were occasions where “we commune with the
    Infinite and reach with reverence and respect towards the Supreme Being. They always
    include a prayer to the Supreme Being in which the whole congregation joins.
  10. RolandRB Member

    57. Mrs Wilks said in her declaration: “It is in our Sunday services that we come to celebrate
    and acknowledge God. This is emphasised not only by the simple coming together of
    many beings in a joint spiritual experience, but also by the express postulation of the pre
    eminent position of God in the recitation of our Creed. We show profound religious
    reverence and respect for the Supreme Being.
    "Men, then ... a whole lot of people will say carelessly 'Well, God is everywhere', remember that this was an idea which was introduced rather latterly in Christian religion. The God of which they speak, of whom they speak continually, eh Yahweh, lord knows how it's produ.. pronounced, because it is so secret, that nobody is really is supposed to be able to pronounce it, so they ommitted all of the vowels in the word, and they spell it only with it's consonants. So lord knows how this word is to be pronounced, but the more agreed upon pronunciation amongst scholars so they can talk about it is Yahweh. And this is the Christian God. But he lives in a trunk with a leopard skin. That's right, that's the full story of it."
  11. RolandRB Member

    61. The application letter says that prayer is an important part of every Sunday service. Mrs
    Wilks exhibited the Prayer for Total Freedom since it expressed the essence of
    Scientology, “and seeks God’s help to accomplish our work.”
    "Ah, but, it believes only one thing: 'I am fixed in space by an exterior determinism'. Now remember that, that is real important in the subject of exteriorisation. And this Thetan is surrounded entirely by this complete belief that something else is fixing everything else in space, although he can't find any source of this, so we invent God."
  12. RolandRB Member

    62. The revised form of wedding ceremony was exhibited in which “upon the solemn and
    holy occasion” a not unfamiliar structure of ceremony followed. Questions were asked of
    bride and groom “under the light and glory of God and truth”. There are a number of
    references to God, such as “here in all the dignity of God before me stand a woman and a
    man whose lives from this time hence are one…before their God…”. The couple are
    pronounced man and wife before the witnesses “and God”.
    "Now the MEST universe is all very well, but it's all illusion. One doesn't want an illusion, so he can't have an illusion, and when he was very young, why, Christ was alright, he was very friendly as a matter of fact, and so on., but that's mostly, people, you know, they have to believe in that sort of thing, and they did once, but it requires nothing but faith, and of course they can't have any faith anymore, and they did have hopes on that once in a while, but actually religion doesn't lead anybody anyplace, in the final analysis, because you never get your wish anyway, so of course one can't survive on the basis of spirits and religion and so forth, so that leaves just of course God, and of course God naturally exists, because there's all this space around here, and this space is obviously surviving, so of course it's obviously surviving, of course space itself is liable to collapse but the Prime Mover Unmoved is not liable to collapse, because he created all this and maybe he can't either, and nobody yet has come up with as flat a 'can't survive', as 'God will never again be able to create anothe MEST universe'. But if we mentioned it brother, it would be out in the streets."
  13. fishypants Moderator

  14. DeathHamster Member

    The London Idle Org says that they have Sunday Service at 11am. Get there at 10:30 and count the number of people who enter the org.
  15. RolandRB Member

    ^^ Maybe go along to one just to force them to arrange one and pull the people out of the course rooms.

    If it were me I would get carried away. I'd go all evangelical during the reading of the Scientology creed. I'd start with "praise Xenu" and end up threshing around on the floor asking Xenu to exorcise my body thetans.
  16. RolandRB Member

    That won't work because the "worshippers" might be in the course rooms up until then.
  17. DeathHamster Member

    Then arrive just before 9:30 when the org opens for the day.
  18. RolandRB Member

    Aren't there laws against lying to the court?

    "He's told what the eighth dynamic is: "God is everywhere, God is everything, God is in everything, God is outside of everything, and it's in everything, and it watches you, and the watchbirds are watching you, and God is watching you and everybody's keeping his finger on you..." And the first thing you know, the fellow is going to say to himself, "Hm-mm, there's something wrong with this. I wish I had a little privacy." And this is hard on him.

    So if he's accepted this -- this concept or this description -- which is perfectly true; I mean, God is everywhere; he isn't watching you, you are it.

    Anyhow, perfectly true, maybe, to him, that God is everywhere and he'll do something which he knows would be very offensive to what his concept of God is.

    And he knew that God was watching him, so therefore this is an overt act against God.

    And do you know you can pick that up out of almost anybody that has ever been infected -- I mean, ever studied Christianity.

    Now, this is so deeply buried, by the way, that it takes considerable digging sometimes to make your preclear find this one.

    The dependency one is easy; everybody knows you depend, depend, depend, depend.
    But on the other side, that is not as easy to find. When did he do something that was an overt act to God? But it's one you have to solve on the case or you'll never get him up here where he'll play God. "
  19. RolandRB Member

    I guess that their long-term aim is to have their entire Ideal Orgs registered as places of religious worship so that they pay no rates at all. I bet the £70K a year they still have to pay on 146 Queen Victoria Street hurts them a lot.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  20. Anonymous Member

    Where does this Prayer for Total Freedom come from? Is it by Hubbard? How long have they been using it for?
  21. RolandRB Member

    I feel there is something strange about the support they are getting from Lord Lester. Reputable lawyers who will deal with Scientology are rare and I can not help but feel there is a dark secret hiding in there. What do we know about this guy's history?
  22. RolandRB Member

    I am not sure there is anything he can do. Central government and local government are different branches of legislature. Pickles can "urge" local authorities but can not interfere in the performance of their duties. To me, it is significant that he had his say on this issue.

    At the end of the day, it is the British public who are remaining quiet on this subject and so allowing this to continue with all its related unpleasantness, including child abuse within the cult, and it is they who must shoulder the blame. Mr. Pickles has done all he can do.
  23. Random guy Member

    Which he has done, mind you. He's one of the few politicians in the Anglophone world who has shown any backbone when dealing with the cult.
  24. RolandRB Member

    Yes. I think people can assume he can do more to force local authorities to attentively and correctly apply the law but I don't think he can. It is like federal and state government in the US. Two separate branches of government.

    Pickles has made his views very clear and made the public very clear on his stance so now it is up to the public to resolve the issue. And they won't because they do not give a toss.
  25. Anonymous Member

    Pickles for president!

    Oh wait, wrong country. Sorry.
  26. wolfbane Member

    I was thinking more along the lines of exploiting the moment for broader awareness. Stroke the flames while the coals are still warm and whatnot.

    The cult is trying to use this marriage bid to skate in the backdoor with being recognized as a place of worship. So why not parade the real issues that have not been addressed right through the front door to not only quash their arguments in the court of public opinion, but to also use the attention the case is getting to their detriment by possibly turning it in a media feeding frenzy.

    Even though Pickles might not be able to do anything about it personally, an open letter published in a newspaper would give him the chance to comment again at length. Which may lead to more local citizens outraged as to why it is happening and perhaps inspire more reporters digging into the places where they get tax breaks for additional coverage.
  27. RolandRB Member

    He has now for a second time stuck his neck out in an unprecedented way and we should respect him for that. I don't think he is allowed to do any more. As for the local authorities that give away British taxpayer's money so that the cult can abuse their own children then that is up to the British people to fix if they want to. There was an e-petition on this that garnered only a thousand votes so it is clear that the British public are happy with this child abuse carrying on.

    One day, one of these abused children might do a Sandy Hook on a UK junior school and we will have to accept it as a fair return for the harm we did them.
  28. Anonymous Member

    The Brits' love affair with child abusers starts at the top.
  29. Anonymous Member

  30. Anonymous Member

    The UK is doinitwrong.

    The country needs to update their marriage laws so that people can get married wherever they want to, by whoever they want, without granting the location and the person conducting the ceremony any special status, especially regarding taxes.

    The one good thing that the Scientology corporation does is to find all the weak spots in a country's laws that grant religions special favors that nobody else can get. Every time the company finds a religious loophole, it's a sure sign that the legislature needs to plug that hole.
  31. RolandRB Member

    True, it's not like anybody's dog or cat is getting harmed, after all!

    If it were important then the British public would write in to their MP about it and/or write to the local authority that hands out the rates relief. They won't, because nobody cares.
  32. DeathHamster Member

    Is the 1970 decision by the Court of Appeal online? That's going to be the starting point of the Supreme Court should they decide to consider CoS's appeal. Annotating it with further facts that have come to light since then might be useful.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  33. Anonymous Member

    And is Alessandro Calcioli related to Leo Calcioli, Neil Gaiman's brother-in-law?
  34. The Wrong Guy Member

    From Twitter:

    Ricky Gervais@rickygervais
    When Santa dies, I'm going to tell everyone how he touched me and that the BBC knew.
  35. RolandRB Member

    Maybe Pickles is using this Scn rates relief thing as a stick to beat the backs of the local authorities with and to make acceptable to the British public his reduced government funding for the local authorities.
  36. RolandRB Member

    If it does go to the Supreme Court then what is to stop all the perjury ? I mean, this religious ceremonies and praying to God nonsense - it's just not true. It is not done except for show. I was in the "Church" and the whole notion was either not discussed or was laughed at as a trick to fool the authorities.

    I would report this as perjury but I have read that in the UK you can be arrested and punished by the police if you do that.

    Maybe somebody could feed this to the press.
  37. Anonymous Member

    If memory serves, this is how scientology circumvented laws in AU via 'The Marriages Act" that allowed The High Court challenge they eventually won
  38. jensting Member

    From we have
    But that's so true! For instance, it was almost certainly after 1970 that L Ron Hubbard issued the religious instructions in the "Intelligence Course" on which of course contains the infamous Training-Routine Lying (or "TR-L" for short) on
  39. Anonymous Member

    A belief evolved? What's the policy on that?
  40. anon walker Moderator

    LOL, and speaking in clams...

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