Customize

CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by N. Ron Rubber, Apr 14, 2009.

  1. charlie Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    the reply
    I wish to thank you for your recent email and for sharing with me your concerns about the exhibit sponsored by the Citizens Commission on Human Rights (CCHR), which is affiliated with the Church of Scientology.



    Although I am sympathetic to the issues you have raised and do not personally agree with the positions taken by the leadership of the Church of Scientology, I thought that it would be helpful to outline the key factors which led us to allow the exhibit on campus.



    Firstly, the space was booked by the organizers of the event in accordance with our policies and procedures. Secondly, it is my understanding that the Church of Scientology is a recognized religious organization. Thirdly, and most importantly, we are motivated by our commitment to ensuring the university is a place where individuals and groups have the freedom to present their ideas and perspectives, whether we agree with them or not, in a civil and respectful manner. Concordia University takes no position with respect to the content of the exhibit or any of the positions the CCHR espouses.



    I am well aware that you may still disagree with our decision. That being said, there is an expectation that the exhibit will respect the spirit of our commitment to academic freedom. It is a precondition of any event on our campus that the emphasis will be and at all times will remain on the respectful discussion and debate of possibly opposing positions in a secure, collegial environment. Below please find a link to a Gazette editorial which accurately represents Concordia's position.



    Scientologists have a right to speak, too
  2. moarxenu Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    O hai, Charlie! This is most excellent. I am putting finishing touches on my article A response to the Montreal Gazette editorial: Concordia students have the right to hear about Scientology's Human Rights Abuses

    It is great she cites them. My article is aimed at the Board of Governors and focuses on destruction of the Concordia psych department and coerced abortions. Should be up on For Great Justice in a couple of hours.
  3. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    My emphasis.
  4. Anonymous Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    Your point?
  5. charlie Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    this comment from the article

    Instead of trying anonymously to howl down Scientology's notions, the church's critics should be organizing a display of their own. Their vehemence suggests that they are capable of disproving some of Scientology's claims.

    possibly the most stupid comment I have seen
  6. moarxenu Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    Response from my article:

    A Note on Due Diligence:

    It will no longer do for the Board of Governors, the Montreal Gazette, and the rest of the media to fail to do due diligence on Scientology. Statements like these from the Gazette are a journalistic embarrassment in the year 2009:

    Tiresomely, many of Scientology's foes choose to remain anonymous, claiming that critics have been harassed in the past. This is, we suggest, unwise marketing, if nothing else. Never mind the merits of an idea; when it is denounced anonymously, it's the critics who seem sinister.


    No one who has read Jeff Jacobsen's sociological study We Are Legion: Anonymous and the War on Scientology would ever write these sentences.


    Savvy journalists like Nate Baca go directly to the Anonymous forums on Why We Protest and post their questions and needs for research and information. I have posted a reading list below.


    Essential reading:

    Jonny Jacobsen: Infinite Complacency

    Bob Penny: Social Control in Scientology

    Just Bill:
    Why Do Scientologists Believe?

    Scientology Thought Control

    Scientology Critical Information Directory:

    What is wrong with Scientology?

    Stephen Kent:

    Brainwashing in Scientology's RPF
    Scientology: Is this a Religion?
    Malignant Narcissism, L. Ron Hubbard, and Scientology's Policies of Narcissistic Rage

    Why We Protest: Media Forum
  7. V for Anon Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    /r/equest for pictures and material of this exhibition

    As I posted in similar threads, I am looking for good pictures
    to make protest posters.

    Thanks again for assistance.
  8. lothar Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    This is THE most fail thing I have ever read on this forum. You clearly have never spoken with major journos before or understand their reputations, methods, goals, etc. to publicize this nonsense (albeit true) about Baca.
  9. moarxenu Member

    Thanks. Personally, I don't have problems with journos requesting information on WWP, but it is a controversial issue. I will revise it.

    OK the post is up on For Great Justice

    A response to the Montreal Gazette: Concordia students have the right to hear about Scientology's human rights abuses


  10. charlie Member

  11. puck35 Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    Right, I've had it. While I don't expect them to suddenly recant, I'm seriously sick of reading their bullshit boilerplate reply. It's time they felt pressure from inside, which means we need to start emailing their psychology department. We also need to spread awareness of Concordia's hosting the CCHR again in October.
  12. AnotherMrPink Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    Puck and Cananons, how hard would it be to get the school to allow you to set up a display as well?

    I mean, the one letter recently states "That being said, there is an expectation that the exhibit will respect the spirit of our commitment to academic freedom. It is a precondition of any event on our campus that the emphasis will be and at all times will remain on the respectful discussion and debate of possibly opposing positions in a secure, collegial environment."

    So why not ask, for October, to share the space with CCHR? Surely, the school since it says its fair and unbiased and open for civil discussion would allow "The other side" present as well.

    Just an idea. October is a way off and would give time to make something actually kinda nice. Plus, Scilons are so stupid theyd probably try to start something, or steal something, and be kicked out outright.

    Don't silence them maybe (school seems unwilling to do so), but demand you are given the same forum and its only fair to the students to hear the whole story.
  13. puck35 Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    With what money? They could easily say, the CCHR paid to be there so it's only fair that we pay as well. And there is no space to be shared: the CCHR sideshow took up the entire atrium of the library building.
  14. AnotherMrPink Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    I missed the part where you have to pay to be there. If so, then ok, i sux cox.

    It could be suggested that they have to share the space if the school truly was about open sharing of information.

    And Anons have put together some pretty imaginative stuff with little to no monies. In 6 months I'm sure something could be made. hell, bring a 19 inch tv and have OT3 on video loop all day facing em.


    Plus, the lulz when Scilons try and bawwww about having to share with Anons.

    Just ideas as the general baww about them being there seems not to be working.

    Another idea, request the school set up signs around it telling people the views at the exibit are the views of Scientology, a faith, and as such it is not backed by Scientific or Historic facts and to not be taken as fact, but only opinion.
  15. Suzette Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    Well, if their policy is really "anyone who can pay the fee and fill out the forms," then they are asking for trouble. They're getting the sort of publicity that attracts groups that make the Scienos look sane, like White Supremacists and the people who want to execute gays and doctors who practice family planning. Many universities have been down this spiral and finally gave up and produced a set of restrictions, which is unfortunate, since these sorts of rules do as much harm to the legitimate student groups as anyone.
  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    Scientology is like that kid who comes to school naked so the school has to institute a dresscode, and then suddenly you have uniforms.
  17. Anon1720 Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    Again with the misinformation that scientology is a recognized religion in Canada? FFS!
    It may be different in Quebec but Concordia gets students from across Canada and all the other provinces/territories do not recognize the cult as a religion.
  18. puck35 Member

  19. Anonymous Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    Anti-vaccination exhibit. Get Jim Carrey and Jenny McCarthy there. She can show her boobs and tell how she thinks it's OK if kids die in Africa as long as she can ban vaccines.

    There you have a group of crazies which actually exist.
  20. charlie Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    OK so what province/territory is scientology a religion in or is it just Quebec so I can correct her when I reply to her.
  21. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    IMHO, Mota should be corrected about the status of scientology in Canada and challenged about the "hate crimes" issue.
  22. Olrik Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    CCHR and scientology HATE psych to the point of manipulating facts and figures (well... we know about figures...). Isn't it a crime in a University ?
  23. DeathHamster Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    Recognized religious status is province by province, but most have Revenue Canada charity status as a requirement. For example, in Ontario:
    BECOMING A RECOGNIZED RELIGIOUS DENOMINATION IN ONTARIO
    By Suzanne E. White, B.A., LL.B., and Terrance S. Carter, B.A., LL.B.
    A big can of WHUP-FAIL there. And...
    Oh snap!
  24. puck35 Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    She should be corrected about a lot of things, but I suspect she's just a mouthpiece parroting talking points she's been given by Grape's office.

    Anyway, even if Scientology were a recognized religion in every country in the world, would that make them immune from having to substantiate their claims and techniques?
  25. peterstorm Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    It has a religious status in every province except Ontario, probably because it was convicted on breach of public trust (operation snow white thing) overthere.

    No charity status is given to the church by Revenue Canada.

    Frontgroups like Narconon have the canadian charity status. They are tax exempt.

    Quebec is the only province with it's own revenue service. They gave the religious corporation status and tax exemptions to Co$ in 1993, the same year Co$ got it in the U.S.

    My guess is Revenue Quebec went along with the IRS, because there was no prior opposition.
  26. DeathHamster Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    Dox? From what I have seen and heard, all but Quebec go by the Revenue Canada rejection of their charity application in 1999.

    Keep in mind that CoS managed to get provisional status pre-1999 by claiming that its required charity status was a sure thing. When Revenue Canada rejected it, Revenue Canada didn't announce it (nor did CoS, surprise) so that it took the provinces a few years to figure out what had happened and cancel their status.
  27. puck35 Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    I want to know what went on behind closed doors between Grape and his goons. What Conchergate needs, really, is its own secret inside source, its own Deep Throat. Barring that, we can file access to information requests (since universities are considered public bodies) to obtain information on: Who approved the exhibit and when, did they know the CCHR was a Scientology front at any time before the complaints started coming in, what discussions took place once the situation exploded, whether there was discussion of shutting the exhibit down, and if so did the CCHR and/or its lawyers get involved, how much Concordia got paid to host the sideshow...
  28. Anonymous Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    Yeah, and the low-hanging fruit here is to respond to that letter written by the administrator pointing out that:
    1: He's an administrator.
    2: Classes were out
    3: He should have known that, being an administrator
    4: The still unanswered questions about this.
  29. charlie Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    thats great thanks peterstorm


    A NON-CHARITABLE CHURCH LOL
  30. CoastalAnon Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    <3 puck 35

    Any update on their tour schedule?
    Prison? Workshops? Jesus God these people are insanely cruel. This quote brought to you by me from the CCHR website.

    You mean like the RPF, or sticking children in chain lockers on ships, or pouring urine on adult members as punishment? How about throwing people into a freezing lake if they fail to meet their stats? Emphasis above is mine.

    OH AND GUESS WHAT?
    YOU can take a VIRTUAL TOUR of this thing at CCHR's home page!
    http://www.cchr.org/#/home
    click the enter sign.
    It's devious. Be Warned, they are not LYYYing but they are SSSSlanting the facts. It's about teh PR.
  31. mnql1 Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    Revenu Québec recognized Scientology as a religion in 1993, but the legal criteria are content-free and essentially circular. In Quebec, a religion consists of three or more persons whose activity is religious and who apply for religious status. There was talk about this in the media in February 2009 when Cardinal Ouellet said that Scientology is not a religion.

    Religious Corporations Act Updated to 15 April 2009
    Application form (You too can start your own religion in Quebec today!)

    On the other hand, the Quebec government's consumer protection agency does not really think Scientology is a religion. In 1976, the Office de la protection du consommateur (aka OPC), advised the public not to invest in Scientology. There are a few flashbacks to this on the website of the agency's magazine Consommation (formerly named Protégez-vous). In a nutshell, the OPC warned that Scientology is a form of "faith" (quotation marks in the original) that charges thousands of dollars.

    L’Église de Scientologie sur la sellette ("Scientology in the Hot Seat", Aug. 2008, pdf in French)
    35 ans de société
    Consommation magazine, Special edition, October 2008 (pdf in French)
    Option consommateurs souffle 25 bougies!
  32. HellRazor Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    Narconon on Canada Revenue Agency's (CRA, formerly Revenue Canada) website:

    Charities Listings
  33. DeathHamster Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    Irrelevant to Scientology's religious status. In all the provinces but Quebec, Scientology has to show that the Church of Scientology has charity status from the Canada Revenue Agency, which they don't have. They do pretend that there's no connection with Narconon, after all...
  34. charlie Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    sent this off today

    I have been checking on scientology in Canada and found that it
    has no charitable status according to Canada Revenue agency and Quebec is the only province with it's own revenue service. They gave the religious corporation status and tax exemptions to Co$ in 1993, the same year Co$ got it in the U.S.
    It has a religious status in every province except Ontario, probably because it was convicted on breach of public trust (Operation Snow White - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ).
    So we have a "CHURCH" that serves no CHARITABLE purpose what so ever.
  35. puck35 Member

    What makes me ill, beyong Grape and Mota's being misinformed as to the CoS's religious/charity status, is the notion that being a religious and/or charitable group allows them to say whatever the fuck they want. And how does that fit into their lame-ass "academic freedom" argument? Are they a religious group, a charity, an academic group, a political (as in, human rights) group, what?

    The more I close-read their boilerplate reponse, the more I see how weak and desperate their arguments were. My hunch is that behind closed doors they didn't actually believe much of what they were publicly parroting. That's why I want to get their internal dox. They tried to save face but most of the media coverage implicitly made them look stupid.

    Like I said: even if it were indeed considered a church, does that mean they can do and say anything they want? That's not what freedom of religion means.
  36. DeathHamster Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    DOX DAMNIT! As far as I've been able to tell from a lot of looking is that all provinces, except Quebec, require charitable status and delegate that authority to the Canada Revenue Agency.

    They had religious status in Ontario, after the Snow White convictions, provisional on charity status from Revenue Canada, but lost it after Ontario noticed that Revenue Canada had rejected their application.
  37. charlie Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    sorry D/H will rectify
  38. DeathHamster Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    Thanks. I have a strong reaction because unless this kind of thing is stepped on quickly with a request for dox, it goes around and around the net and never stops.

    There was one statement in a Wikipedia article about Scientology's status in Canada, which was removed because there was no reference. Then an article in a student newspaper repeated it (without citing the Wikipedia article) and that was used as a reference to put the statement back into the Wikipedia article, AAAARRRRGGGGHHH!!!

    It's a pain trying to dig for the current information on recognized groups from the various provincial authorities. They all like to hold their lists close and never directly answer the simple question "Scientology: religious status (Y/N)?"
  39. puck35 Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I went back to the Concordia events site and did a search "CCHR" and then "CCDH". (Before, this would bring up the eleven-day October event.) I got nothing this time. I did a search for all events between October and November 2009. Again, nothing.

    Has it been canceled??? Because that would be a major WIN in my books.
  40. charlie Member

    Re: CCHR at Concordia University (Montreal)

    I have also asked her about this

Share This Page

Customize Theme Colors

Close

Choose a color via Color picker or click the predefined style names!

Primary Color :

Secondary Color :
Predefined Skins