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Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Herro, Nov 11, 2009.

  1. themadhair Member

  2. Kalashnikov Member

    Re: Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

    [IMG]

    I'm not sure what your point was, please summarize.

    Psychology is a soft science. I stand by my previous statements. Electroshock is complete quackery. The vast majority of mental illness is a product of thought patterns as a result of upbringing and environment. Change the environment and most people will do a complete 180. That's not to say some cases aren't irreversible and do require medication.

    LOL the biggest cult leader/profiteer of naive people EVER ..
  3. Anonymous Member

    Re: Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

    Not true.

    Electronic Orgasm Enhancement
  4. anonohio Member

    Re: Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

    Based on? Evidence based practice? Double blind RCTs? Meta-analysis of the available body of research? Your own opinion after reading some stuff online? Or having experienced it yourself?

    Please elucidate


    From my own experience in taking part in ECTs it has a 78-80% success rate for treating severe depression (backed up by numerous peer reviewed journals from different branches of medicine) after around 4 treatments.

    Relapse is up to 60% in the long term, but it's till better than any other form of treatment, including meds, counselling, and other treatments that have been studied in an objective way.
  5. Kalashnikov Member

  6. Kalashnikov Member

    Re: Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

    Interesting. I've never been a fan though, however, I will review the information you have provided.
  7. Kalashnikov Member

    Re: Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

    Just my opinion, but psychiatry always overlooks the core problems. Environment plays the most important role. Change the patients environment and the problem may go away all together. Unfortunately, the patients are often in too much a rut to actively make the lifestyle changes that will ultimately result in a healthier thought pattern.

    That said, places like mental institutions, cults, and prisons are the exact opposite of what these people need to subvert their thought patterns. Rather, they reinforce it.
  8. Anonymous Member

    Re: Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

    And here's some more essential reading:
    [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Neurobiology-Suicide-Clinic-Academy-Sciences/dp/1573310956]Amazon.com: The Neurobiology of Suicide: From the Bench to the Clinic (Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences) (9781573310956): National Institute of Mental Health (U. S.), David M. Stoff, J. John Mann, Suicide Research Workshop: From the Bench t[/ame]
  9. anonohio Member

    Re: Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

    ECT is reserved for severely depressed suicidal patients that have failed to respond to other therapy, including traditional counseling and alternative therapies.


    also, there is no always and never in medicine. Psychiatrists don't overlook core problems...that's kind of silly to say.... a large part of the problem is that *no one* knows what the core problems are in these patients. There is a huge body of research done on this. Anyone who says they definitively know is selling snake oil.

    Mental illness has long been established as multimodal. Yes, environment has absolutely important role, however there is nothing solid that says one thing is more important than another.

    In fact, there are some absolutely fascinating studies on monozygous twins brought up together in the same environment. One ends up classic bipolar. Genetics and environment (apparently) don't play a role there? Who knows.
  10. Kalashnikov Member

    Re: Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

    No two people can live the exact same life. Even if twins. That aside - Yes, you're right I was generalizing a bit. What I meant to say was where the pharma industry is involved, there's usually an incentive for doctors to push meds or some treatment.
  11. WTF Member

    Re: Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

    Pretty much what you are describing is Scientology OldSchool<tm> "PAB 6" (Professional Auditor's Bulletin 6) Essentially rest, nutrition, change environment.
  12. anonohio Member

    Re: Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

    That's kinda funny...that's definitely a scientology tow line. There are a lot of companies wanting us to use their drugs. Not long ago, a precedex rep bought us lunch for the 2nd time in a month and gave a presentation.....trying to get us to use it in the ORs. We aren't.

    Pharm companies don't have a fraction of the influence people think they do....especially since generic drugs so much cheaper. If anything, it's getting harder for them to influence practitioners, because negative incentive is huge now with insurance reimbursement.

    I don't want to sound like a condescending weenie. This is just my opinion, from an obviously biomedical standpoint.

    I'm biased, I recognize that, and I'd like to think I'd be open to changing my mind if I was presented with evidence.
  13. Kalashnikov Member

    Re: Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

    That's fine. But we can both say that it does happen with a lot of financially driven practitioners.

    That said I'm not completely against prescription medication or alternative treatment, I'm simply pointing out the double edged sword. But even freedom has that. I guess we have to take the good with the bad in everything.
  14. anonohio Member

    Re: Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

    Again, i'm not quite sure what you mean by that. Drug companies push drugs under patent, because they have proprietary rights and therefore can charge an arm and a leg (although usually its a decade before a pharm company sees a profit from a drug, because the insane amount of trials a drug has to go through).

    Also, pharm companies generally make good drugs that are a huge improvement over what's currently used (like brevibloc vs labetalol with asthmatics). They're desirable to have. If it benefits a patient, we want it, and don't have to be sold. If anything, it's insurance companies that limit what we can and can't use in a clinical setting, even to the point of saying how long someone can stay in recovery after a lap chole or in ICU after open heart.


    Definitely there are private practice groups and hospitals that do everything to cut costs to maintain a profit (like the anesthesiologist in nevada who reused syringes). I just don't think it's tied to some conspiracy with pharm companies, insurance, and physicians. It's just people, in a business, scamming. Just like any other business. There are all types.
  15. Kalashnikov Member

    Re: Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

    I'm saying it's common practice for a drug company to offer a doctor kick backs for each prescription they write to a patient. Sometime's they'll buy them a car or something, and/or give them a small cut of the profit. Yes, this is common practice.
  16. psychoutcults Member

    Re: Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

    Psychiatrist speaking here:

    Anyone who works for a living is financially driven on some level.

    The part about big pharma bribing doctors is more complex. Yes, drug manufacturers push docs to prescribe their meds, and yes, some docs have inappropriately close relationships with drug reps. Many docs absolutely refuse to talk to drug reps. Most take the middle road.

    Despite being incredibly cheap, I actually pay for a subscription to a site called the Natural Database, which doesn't accept advertising, and has scientific reviews of natural products. I recommend non-pharmacologic treatments even when prescribing meds.

    I choose generic meds whenever possible, for several reasons. Obviously, they are less expensive. They also tend to have longer track records, so I have a better idea of the likelihood of efficacy, potential side effects, and drug interactions.

    It isn't an either-or question between meds and therapy. Most of my patients are referred by therapists working with clients who continue to receive talk therapy. I consider it a treat when I get to focus more on therapy than med management.

    I wish that a few easy interventions and some introspection would do the trick for people with mental illnesses. I would be perfectly happy if a miracle happened so that people would no longer need my services. (I think I'd like to be a biology teacher.) But right now, I'm booked months ahead for new patients, because mental illness does exist, and people want treatment.

    Edit: I have never been offered kickbacks for writing prescriptions, and don't know of anyone else who has. No junkets, no free cars, just samples when they are available.
  17. Kalashnikov Member

    Re: Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

    ^ I understand and appreciate your input.
  18. psychoutcults Member

    Re: Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

    Thanks.
  19. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    Re: Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

    While some of that is true, there are also biological and neurological factors as well. For example: Some depression is caused by an underlying disorder (like ADHD) and no amount of change to the environment can remove the depression. So in some cases, it has to be treated with a medicine like a SSRI (like the one in my name) to adust for the biological factor.

    Believe it or not - some psychologists use Desoxyn to treat ADHD. Guess what Desoxyn is? METHAMPHETAMINE . However, they only use Desoxyn in extremely rare cases and only if there is no other alternative. So I am not surprised that ECT is still around but I am willing to guess it is better controlled and less dangerous than it once was.
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

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  21. JConstantine Member

    Re: Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

    Wow, I never thought of Chewbacca as having a dick.
  22. anonohio Member

    Re: Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

    Actually, it's probably psychiatrists that are prescribing that. Psychologists aren't MD/DO (e.g. usually don't have prescriptive authority....i could be wrong though).

    You could say the same thing about sufentanil (a drug I use often). Same thing with cocaine....it's still used in certain ENT surgeries to stop bleeding/numb tissues.

    Many drugs are very dangerous when put in the wrong hands. I'd hate to be on legal meth though, haha. I like my heart the way it is.
  23. themadhair Member

    Re: Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

    My point was that you are full of shit, and are attempting to talk about a subject that you know fuck all about.

    Good to see this thread call you on your muppetry.
  24. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    Re: Carrie Fisher embraces electroshock therapy

    According to our "friends" at Wikipedia when you search for "Psychologists", what is said about them and prescriptions are:

    This means they are able to prescribe their meds in some states. However, if the person is a psychiatrists then they are able to prescribe meds because they have to go through the mess of being a doctor. According to the article, it would be possible to be both since with more training they would be a full blown psychiatrist.

    As for legal prescription meth: The medical community is VERY reluctant to give out prescriptions for it. From what I gathered they only give it out in like extreme cases where other avenues have been explored and failed. It is given in a minor dose (20mg is the maximum dose) and only for a tiny bit of time. In addition, the chemicals are clean - meaning it was made in a lab not in somebody's bathtub.

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