Bundy family of Nevada occupy Oregon Wildlife Refuge headquarters

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by The Wrong Guy, Jan 3, 2016.

  1. ItchyScratchy Member

    You know from reading many letters and papers while the constitution was being written my interpretation of a couple of things differ so vastly from these guys.

    On the reason for the second amendment...the tyranical goverment was england. The tools to combat that would obviously have been an armed citizenry due to a lack of a standing army. The tools to combat their own government were laid out in the constitution itself and granted (in my opinion) by washington abiding to be replaced via a peaceful revolution / democratic election.

    Which is why I don't understand how "following" the constitution allows for an armed take over of public land managed by the federal government. It would seem the right course of action would be to vote for your interests, get some laws passed, revoked or changed and effect change as the constitution directs.

    Any ways onto Leeeeeeevooooooooooyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Finnicum, the dude obviously was fleeing from a warrant stop. Rammed a roadblock, had previously stated he wouldn't be taken alive and was not acting in a rational manner that would allow any of the sheriffs on scene to "use a cool head".

    You could have a debate as to why law enforcement in the US is trained to use deadly force as the first response to imminent danger, when there are less than lethal tools at their disposal. But that small gray area which is nice to talk about after the fact is not the same as the scene as it happened. It is worthy of debate though if that culture that currently exists within law enforcement should be changed some how.

    In the end a bunch of seditionists who probably should do more than read the first few lines of the constitution and actually understand the purpose of the document they hold so dear were made to look like rank amateurs and will spend a bunch of years in prison. Fitting outcome, in the America they wish to bring us back to, they would have been hanged. They should thank their creator we don't really do that to traitors any more.
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  2. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    I agree. He stated his intention to NOT be taken alive. They were armed and stated they would shoot any law enforcement that tried to arrest them. He tries to elude law enforcement, he almost hits a officer when he runs his truck off the road ( he didn't swerve to avoid the man)He comes out with his hands to his side and I'm sure they were not yelling "put your hands to your side" but were yelling " put your hands up". Then he goes for his waist. I doubt he saw the armed agent behind him.
    He got what he wanted.
    They will use the legal process to get federal documents and for sure will find evidence of overreach and illegal stuff ( the BLM AKA Bureau of Large Mistakes), and they will be imprisoned for being dicks with guns.
    There is no miscarriage of justice here. Whining about protesters in Ferguson and Leroy having his hands up won't travel very far. The Militia is still around but not like it used to be.
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  3. The Wrong Guy Member

    Jamie Wilson ‏@JWilsonreporter Jan 28
    Ammon Bundy's lawyers say he has broken down in jail saying "we never wanted bloodshed."

    Jamie Wilson ‏@JWilsonreporter Jan 28
    Bundy to remaining occupiers in Burns, "Stand down. Turn yourself in."

    Jamie Wilson ‏@JWilsonreporter 2 hours ago
    Ammon Bundy's wife is at the federal courthouse awaiting his detention hearing. His attorney says she might make a statement after.

    Jamie Wilson ‏@JWilsonreporter 13 minutes ago
    Ammon and Ryan Bundy both denied pre-trial release from jail. Judge feels they are flight risks and dangers to community.

    Chris Pietsch@ChrisPietsch 4 minutes ago
    Harney Co. remains tense as #OccupyMalheur continues
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  4. DeathHamster Member

    That might be true, and it might be his lawyers doing their job.
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  5. The Wrong Guy Member


    Wooden cross appears at site of LaVoy Finicum's death | The Oregonian

    Just past the Juaquin Miller campground on a juniper-lined mountain pass, a wooden cross has appeared in bloodstained snow.

    Drivers on U.S. 395, the highway that connects Burns to John Day, stopped to get a better look or snap pictures of the spot where LaVoy Finicum died three days ago. Broken glass littered the ground near a snowbank rutted from the impact of a pickup truck's front bumper.

    Made of two-by-four boards and standing more than five feet tall, the cross holds vigil over a lonely stretch of road where the armed occupation at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge took a dramatic and deadly turn.


    As community tension remains high, four occupiers are still holding ground at the refuge. They say they won't leave unless federal authorities grant pardons for everyone involved in the standoff.
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  6. The Wrong Guy Member

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  7. Disambiguation Global Moderator
    This is a blow by blow discussion about the shooting death of LaVoy by a pro gun magazine. They say it was suicide by cop and describe LaVoy's final moments as a classic "ready position" for a draw and shoot. The reports he was shot with his hands up and 100 rounds shot at the car are lies.
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  8. Disambiguation Global Moderator

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  9. Quote is from the above link.

    Hard to see this as 'effective' anything - nutjobs with guns taking on the elected government, resulting in a senseless, unnecessary death seems a more reasonable view.

    Nor does the author's characterisation of a 'rogue' govt or a 'minor grass fire' accord with the mainstream view.

    But there is just one thing I do feel uneasy about. The re-sentencing of the two men (while acknowledging the legal letter-of-the-law justification for it) seems to me to be slightly unfair to the offenders. It would have been wiser to have acknowledged that it was the court who made a mistake in the original sentencing, while showing leniency to the men involved.
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  10. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    It wasn't a minor grassfire. They set at least 2 fires, one to cover up a illegal poaching of deer. Nice guys.
    The re sentencing was because the original sentencing was wrong, however it stinks a little legally. The men should have been sentenced appropriately, were not, and you can't change the past.
    The author of the link is nutty, the link was for the story of David Fry, one of the last 4 at the refuge. He was so unpopular he was booted from a car leaving the Refuge, leaving him still there. Now the Bundys want everyone to leave because they can't make bail until it's all over.
    David Fry is a pro ISIS / internet troll that supposedly hacked the BLM thru the computers at the Refuge.
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  11. A.O.T.F Member

    Hard to believe. Here's a guy who didn't know the basics of how to setup a live internet feed, moreover, in keeping the damn thing running properly.
  12. The Internet Member

    The Hammonds and Bundys have been part of the Wise Use Movement, which seeks to privatize western Federal lands. Small ranchers and farmers are the face of this movement. But the real force behind the movement are miners, loggers, and energy companies.

    The public would not feel so sympathetic if the face were Koch Industries. That is why we get the Bundys and Hammonds up front. BTW, Ammon Bundy mentioned that a wealthy friend gives him all his pocket constitutions to hand out. I would like to know who that guy is.

    More here:
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  13. The Internet Member

    Hey some interesting info on the non-profit behind the Wise Use movement, the CENTER FOR DEFENSE OF FREE ENTERPRISE (CDFE).

    Moonies! I think one of the Moon kids has a pretty big gun manufacturing business. So double win for them.
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  14. DeathHamster Member

    Then any stories on this out of the Washington Times should be looked at carefully.
  15. Random guy Member

  16. Random guy Member

    Dow Chemicals, wow! Oh Bopal...
  17. Disambiguation Global Moderator

  18. The Internet Member

    Old but juicy article about Moonie money and the Wise Use movement. Here is a bit:

    I loves the little wildlifes and I am sad at all the species dying off due to human activity. So I do think it is important not to privatize Federal land at this time. Later maybe if we aren't so dumb and vulnerable to social engineering shenanigans.

    Sun Myung Moon was into sex magick (like Hubbard) before he started his Unification Church. He's a New Age magician who sells you nutrition, aka an old school fascist that thinks the New Men ought to rule those not sufficiently pure or enlightened.

    Oh this is good also:

    Shitty animal rights groups (e.g., PETA, Human Society of the United States, ALF) are promoted to scare the public about the motives of environmentalists, and to eat up resources that basically do not help animals. So the Wise people are fuckers.
  19. The Wrong Guy Member

    Oregon standoff: Uncertainty builds after last occupiers fall silent online | The Oregonian

    Silence settled over the month-long armed occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Sunday, after the final four protesters reported losing nearly all of their communication channels.

    Regular video streaming from the remaining three men and one woman had offered a real-time and firsthand insight into ongoing negotiations. The sudden quiet only heightened the sense of uncertainty about when -- and how -- the anti-government standoff would end.

    The protesters entrenched at the refuge headquarters are: Sean Anderson, 48, and his wife Sandy Anderson, 47, of Riggins, Idaho; David Fry, 27, of Blanchester, Ohio and Jeff Banta, 46, of Elko, Nevada.

    They were the last of a group that arrived at the headquarter of the 187,000-acre wildlife refuge Jan. 2 to protest the imprisonment of two local ranchers. The occupiers were the offshoot of a Burns rally by activists who viewed the prison terms of Dwight Hammond Jr. and son Steven as the latest example of federal overreach.

    Fry and Sean Anderson told supporters Sunday morning that their phone lines with Internet capabilities were cut. None of the occupiers has shared anything online since Saturday evening. The main phone at the refuge also appears to be out of service.

    Continued here:

    FBI Blocking Most Lines Of Communication, Militants Say | OPB
  20. The Internet Member

    Next they cut the power, eh?
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  21. Random guy Member

    I suppose the idea is to bore them into submission.
  22. The Internet Member

    I would get sick of that angry fatty pretty quick without internets. I wonder whether David Fry or the other guy will crack first. The wife, you gotta figure, will stand by her man.

    I bet ragechubs has a bad moment when he trashes the place.
  23. DeathHamster Member

    Tag and release:

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  24. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    The original protest against the government was these guys protesting the sentencing of the Hammond men.


  25. Disambiguation Global Moderator

  26. DeathHamster Member

    I bet none of them thought to bring any burner phones, so the FBI probably has all their phones pinpointed.

    Likely the FBI has brought a Stingray up to one of the roadblocks. There's a simple way that should work to get past that, but bwahahahaha, I'm not going to say right now. (I'll say later, because it's funny!)
  27. DeathHamster Member

    Douchbag lives in his own delusional world where He is The People.
  28. ItchyScratchy Member

    It sucks when people don't understand how democracy works. Some times you have to eat a bowl of dicks until your point of view is heard or you could storm a refuge in the middle of nowhere and terrorize a small town.
  29. The Internet Member

    The story of David Fry, poster child for America's lost, cult fodder yoofs. Seems he made a connection with Lavoy Finicum on-line. That friendship drew him toward the refuge from his home in Ohio. The macho men avoided him but Finicum stuck up for him. So the poor guy must feel the world is against him now that Finicum is dead. Well, it kinda is but maybe David could be tempted back into human society with a bit of work.

    Fry wouldn't be a concern for me except we seem to be creating a lot of these confused angry young men with our internets these days. We need a way to immunize them against culty, manipulative propaganda.
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  30. There is a long running competition among Mormons to see who can give their sons the weirdest names.
  31. Disambiguation Global Moderator
    They have all been indited but the contents of the indictment unknown. Their lawyers are not happy, I hope this is not the bullshit the gobbment has planned. They had a preliminary hearing to get a different judge that might have let them out of jail but it's been canceled because of the indictment on new charges.
    The second judge agrees with the first- no bail.
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  32. What are you trying to say?
  33. Disambiguation Global Moderator

  34. Disambiguation Global Moderator
    The indictment is out, they face 6 years.
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  35. DeathHamster Member

  36. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    Do you know- are the location details accurate?
  37. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    The lawyers are in trouble for this and for driving out to the Refuge unasked. They say that advice was pro bono but now that their client is charged they are billing them.
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  38. The Internet Member

    Interesting. The lawyer who spoke for Ammon Bundy at a press conference might be part of this Wise Use cult, based on his apparent personal support for Federal land going to state control.
  39. Disambiguation Global Moderator

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