Bryan Wilson on Scientology

Discussion in 'Scientology Property Tax' started by RolandRB, Jan 9, 2011.

  1. RolandRB Member

    Bryan Wilson is the expert on religions that they quote to prove they are a religion and that they worship God and crap like that. Does anyone know the background to this? He apparently witnessed Scientology sertvices which I am sure will have been staged expecially for him. I need details for this rates relief thingy.
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  2. DeathHamster Member

    What he described in his testimony seems to have no relation to anything seen by ex-members or people who have dropped in on the "Sunday Services". I believe that he was shown an elaborate performance put on for the sole purpose of deceiving him. (Many academics seem to be hopelessly naive about the lengths cultic groups will go to to deceive in return for good PR.)

    The Congregational Services of the Church Of Scientology. Expertise by Bryan R. Wilson, Reader Emeritus in Sociology at the University of Oxford and President of the International Society for the Sociology of Religion 1971-75.
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  3. RolandRB Member

    "The joyous disposition to give thanks that prevails in Scientology Sunday services " - I mean WTF? There ARE no Sunday Services and there never have been except perhaps if it is all arranged to fool some nutty professor type.
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  4. DeathHamster Member

    There have been accounts from exes of the scrambling that goes on inside the org when some sucker shows up, wanting to attend "Sunday Services". Basically the sucker is stalled while someone else runs around the org rounding up enough bodies to put on a show, as well as the mandatory minister garb that the org must have on hand.
    That was part of the Emmons report recommending RICO prosecution.
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  5. RolandRB Member

    I want to go along to one of their Sunday Services and join in the singing. Do they have something like Xenu's English Hymnal that I could sing along with, especially if it had the score for the tenor part?
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  6. DeathHamster Member

  7. chuckbeatty77 Member

    Jacqueline Kevanar, was the Sea Org Scientologist who was the In Charge on the project to secure the legitimizing treatises from the religion scholars, and she told me of going to Oxford, meeting Wilson, interacting and getting the product of the treatise.

    It was a stretched out project, and scholars around EU and a few in the US were all gotten to give their views on whether Scientology was a religion based on the LRH basic books. NOT given to Wilson was the Hubbard upper level administrative writings.

    Based on just the Hubbard info in his basic Scientology books, and then with the tours, like you said, the chaperoned and orchestrated tours, WAY more carefully planned and orchestrated, personnel that he saw were all drilled what they'd be doing when the scholars got their tours, but based solely on the books, if you read that Wilson treatise, he says in the beginning the materials he bases his judgement mainly on. And also his being shown what went on in the basic meat and potatoes Scientology org. Namely the auditing, and the training. Wilson said one thing that stuck with me, as I was in the Sea Org, at Author Services Inc, reading carefully just for my own Scientologist validation, being excited that scholars gave us the stamp of approval, what Wilson said that auditing (he fails entirely to equate it with talk therapy) he praises and says what is remarkable about the minister role in Scientology is that it is so individualized. He fails to say that it's a one on one therapy, with really a therapist and a patient, and that the upper levels of Scientology are high volume dead space alien souls exorcism. He didn't of course see the confidential matierals.

    Gordon Melton, privatley, I've been in email touch and met him once, and had one or two conversations with Melton since I've left Scientology, and done all my writings online now, I learned several things. In Gordon's case, there's a link to this, sorry, but Gordan admits he had to sign a legal doc promise with Scientology NOT to tell the esoteric (Xenu and body thetans high volume exorcism stuff) of Scientology. That was in the early 90s alson, and I'm sure it was Jacqueline Kevanar or other OSA staffers who were Melton's liaison's when he agreed to their terms. Gordon since, in private, has said many critical things, and he's mildly been critical of Scientology's excommunication policy in public to the St. Pete Times in one or two occassions when they reported on SCientology in the early 2000s. I've posted on that, as you know, on ARS. As you know I'm practically an apologist for the apologist scholars, and you know my goal was simply to wise them up, and get them UP to telling the Xenu and body thetans exorcism stuff, and finally, in Bromley's chapter 4 of the "Scientology" Oxford Univ Press anthology, of 2009, Bromley does tell about Xenu and body thetans. And there's a sort of lame but at least it is a beginning, chapter in the end of this anthology about the Xenu "myth" (even though Scientologists at the OT 3 level and above do NOT consider Xenu a myth, and the proof is the thankfully leaked Class 8 lecture where LRH screams that the info about OT 3 is NOT just his opinions, but that info is FACT, you can hear him screaming the word "FACT"). As you know.

    Back to Wilson, it was Jacqueline.

    I've several times posted urging her to come go public and I've told the apologist scholars about "our" tactics to secure their treatises. But realize, that even with all of Scientology's/Hubbard's overtly money grubbing and pragmatic business and totalitarian offensiveness, because the Scientologists believe in and are themselves genuinely thinking they ARE improving their souls, and delving into their past lives, learning on the upper levels that we all have suffered this supposedly MASSIVE 4th dynamic engram and are infested with amnesia trance brain dead souls with implants to end all implants in ALL of our soul minds, realize for all Scientology's craziness, and their fake Sunday services which are for show, that STILL the soul therapy and soul exorcism, with the end goal of this "Native State" superpowerful Operating thetan status again, that the scholars see the gnostic mystical tradition in Scientology, and that opens the door to the religion label being inevitably valid.

    For all Scientology's offensive irreligious crap, it still in the minds of the followers who accept the measley gains that they get, no super soul phenomenon --- they settle for the normal coincidences of life as proof their soul improvement therapy/exorcism is working --- this is why it gets the pass on being a religion.

    I've been emailing the apologist scholars for years, news links and keeping them abreast.

    and I sent them ALL the OSA Handling chuck beatty program, so they know the latest leak of the dastardly stuff STILL being done by the Office of Special Affairs.

    Back to the OSA projects to win scholar's positive treatises, also, I firsthand talked with an LA RPF member, Rolf Glatt, who in the late 1990s or it might have been in the earlier part of the year 2000, Rolf and other LA RPFers were part of a guided tour, Rolf told me, for scholars, and particularly a German religious scholar, all for the parade and prove the RPF is NOT a slave camp countering program, since in the German press we know how the RPF was correctly being depicted.

    I came from the Int RPF to the PAC (LA) RPF in Nov 2000, and all the bunks had matching bedspreads, we ate normal good food, got over 7 hours sleep, and it was not like the bad old days of the RPF, but still our mail was looked at and our phone calls to family had to be listened in on for fear we'd plot escaping. Even though legally on paper you today (this is since 1997 when the 'new" RPF scriptures/rules were issued) you sign a legal document (wish we had one but I don't think the RPF legal doc is in the public domain) but it has the clauses saying you are joining the RPF program of your own free will, and it says that you understand that you have the right to end the program at any time with the consequences that you understand that means ending your Sea Org career. So the loopholes WERE inserted in the legal docs that all RPFers have been signing, BEFORE starting the RPF ever since.

    Back to the scholars, your scholars tours question, of course Rolf was kind of a model German Sea Org member himself, well spoken, and not your typical long term downtrodden been/there-dumped/on jaded long term Sea Org member who end up on the RPF, so Rolf was a good showcase RPFer for this scholarly tour by this German lady scholar at least.

    I've hoped that OTHERs who played the model roles for the scholars would come out and tell what they did.

    This is what I know.


    PS Angry Gay Pope and Doug Owen BOTH have taken photos of Rolf Glatt. This is a shot by Doug Owen, 2008 or 2009 of Rolf. Glatt did the RPF show and tell in 2000.jpg
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  8. chuckbeatty77 Member

    L. Ron loves me, yes I know.
    For dear Xenu tells me so.


    Yea, you'd think they might sing one of the "Road to Freedom" songs at Sunday service, like

    Get on the road to freedom,
    Help us free all mankind.
    The pain and all your sorrow,
    Are only in your mind......
  9. RolandRB Member

    Thanks Chuck,

    The late great Dave Bird did this one the best....

    Xenu loves me, this I know
    for my BTs told me so
    Thetans all to Him belong
    Hubbard's weak but Xenu's strong

    Yes, Xenu loves me
    Yes, Xenu loves me
    Yes, Xenu loves me
    My BTs told me so
  10. AnonLover Member

    < APPLAUSE >

    altho i've been mildly annoyed at times with your occasional dilly dallying as apologist for the apologists - this is awesome work Chuck, well done and well played. Between Larry Brennan's e-book laying down how he setup the original handling programs for securing bogus scholarly support, and your intel on how those programs were still being played out, I personally think that the days of bogus scholarship doing the cult any good have nearly come to end.

    Altho I have to give credit where credit is due - James R. Lewis has also been a big part of revealing of the apologist charade in all it's ludicrousness.

    Between ^^his 2009 anthology on Scientology completely failing to address all the evidence that his well established list of cult characteristics applies to Scientology making him all and all the other apologist in that book buffoons who went to great lengths to discredit themselves.

    Combined with Lewis using a classic marketing demographics survey thats straight out of a marketing 102 textbook for assessing where the most ROI money is to be gained for promoting a commercial product, and releasing that online under his own name as a means of classifying ex-members in terms of marketing potential rather than in sociological terms.... he skipped the pain of long drawn out self-inflicted footbullets like Melton did, and dove right into the realm of jumping up on a podium for showing the world of cultic studies that his greatest skill is his ability to stick own head up his ass and flaunt the fact he can still wear a dunce cap on his head while doing so.
  11. andonanon Member

    In Saint Hill, far away, is an old double cross
    The source of much suffring and shame
    But I keep my eyes closed, and pay them in cash
    Ignoring of all of the pain.

    So Ill finance the old double cross
    Til my BT's at last all leave town
    My cash to the old double cross
    To be repaid some fine day with a frown.
  12. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Now we know what the next leak should be. Lurking about-to-blow-ers, you have your mission.........
  13. chuckbeatty77 Member

    English critics have been my favorite, I think in general their native command of the English language has always given them the upper hand in understanding and describing and not being stuck innocently within the USA con man prone/weakness mindset.

    Dave Bird and all UK critics, I thankyou all so much.
  14. AnonLover Member

    Moar Bryan Wilson lings used to pimp the pro-scientology viewpoint...
    An awesome Wilson spanking that seemingly addresses some of the works above, published in Marburg Religion Journal 2003
    Other infos on Wilson
  15. Anonymous Member

    Bryan is an apologist shill, just like James Lewis and Eileen Barker.

    Their bullshit lends an air of false legitimacy to the crimes that cults like CoS perpetrate.

    Far as I'm concerned, they have blood on their hands.
  16. AnonLover Member

    Agreed. But sometimes you have to look at both sides in order to debunk the bs head on, and cult still pimps Wilson's works...
  17. DeathHamster Member

    I don't know if he was a knowing apologist, perhaps just extremely gullible about the lengths Scientology would go to put on a show for him. I believe he was quite senile for a long time before he died, so there wasn't a chance of him catching on and retracting his reports. (Not that Scientology would have stopped using them.)

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