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Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

Discussion in 'Think Tank' started by anon5754, Mar 23, 2008.

  1. anon5754 Member

    Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    Regarding my post here, which nobody replied to yet-

    http://forums.whyweprotest.net/showpost.php?p=93142

    I think it would be beneficial to have an anonymous section of these boards where ideas can thrive in original spirit of anonymous. I think it's a creative weakness to have statements tied back to aliases. I'm not calling for this to become a completely anonymous messageboard, just to create a single sub-forum where an unbiased and open meme-pool can thrive. Ideas and arguments can then be taken from this pool and reposted elsewhere.

    I'm a competent PHP programmer and can probably hack this functionality into vbulletin if admins were willing to add it. It would be well commented, open source, and completely open to review of course. Here's what I'm thinking-

    * A "post anonymously" checkbox in the "additional options" section
    * authorship of anonymous posts are only visible to mods or above
    * anonymous posts don't count toward post counts
    * anonymous posts don't get listed in "all posts by this user"
    * anonymous posts must be enabled in a sub-forum before the option is available
    * you cannot edit an anonymous post.
    * possible "forced anon" forums where all posts are anonymous
    * possible "anonymous user" in user CP where every post by this user is an anonymous post
    * possibility: all user names are hidden when the viewer is not logged in, so at a glance it looks like a completely anonymous message board

    Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0WCLKzDFpI
  2. saerat Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    ooo this has my seal of approval o.o
  3. Anonabliss Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    I think that is a good idea. I believe it will bring new ideas to enturbulation. People may have good ideas but be afraid to mention them for fear of criticism. It could also turn out to be a massively trolled area, too, though. But I think its worth a try. It can always be cancelled if it doesn't work out.
  4. anon5754 Member

  5. desu Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    Maybe you could set up a link to a chan-style subforum, and use the kusaba script? Although this would be outside of vbulletin, it would still be cool to have an Enturbchan.

    Kusaba:
    http://code.google.com/p/kusaba/

    It would require an extra MySql database and PHP support (which I'm sure you have)
  6. googoomuck Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    i support this idea.
  7. anon5754 Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    This is also a good idea and would get my vote, it wouldn't break forum upgrades (though the mods I posted are allowed by vbulletin support).

    The only problem I can see with this idea is that Co$ would troll the shit out of it like they do 4chan, at least with an anonymous vbulletin forum people would still be signed in as a real user and would be accountable for their posts to some extent, and there wouldn't be any need for extra moderators or to have the existing ones monitor a new web app.

    As for people trolling in a forum that allows anonymous posting, it would be cool to start with the thunderdome and just allow the trolls to run wild and see what happens. If the signal to noise ratio was high enough, it could be extended to other areas.

    I think it would probably be a bad idea to have mixed anon and non-anon forums though, as people could use anonymous status to lauch personal attacks. even the most offensive statement can be laughed at when the identity of the target is unknown, while a slightly catty off the cuff remark can be quite offensive when percieved as a personal attack.

    Of course, I hold no sway here.. if enough people think it's a good idea, we can start begging the mods and admins :)
  8. Anon101z Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    Love this idea,

    After all we are anonymous
  9. AnonNow Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    Fantastic idea, the namefaggotry and mutual masturbation sessions are starting to be detrimental to Anonymous.
  10. Anonymous127 Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    ^Truth.

    There's been too much mutual patting on the backs, being sweet and oh so nice to each other. Anonymous needs more practical, cold reasoning and less namefaggotry. It's clear Enturb, although useful (especially for newfags), lacks in this fundamental, distinctive quality of Anonymity.

    If it works out, maybe the Think Tank could be replaced by this type of board (something along the lines of a "Brainstorm Area").
  11. AnonymIceland Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    Great idea. We need both anonymous and non-anonymous sections here.
  12. XenuChan Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    you have my vote.
  13. desu Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    and you have my support.
  14. John Nonymous Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    AND MY AXE!
  15. A23 Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    AND MY BOW!
  16. anonimo Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    let's give it a try in a small subsection... to me it seems more useful for brainstorming-like threads... but I don't know 4chan (my anonymous proxy was not allowed when I tried to enter). There are lots of advantages if people have names... still not so convinced that we'd see an outburst of creativity but I'm excited because it sounds different...
  17. Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    good idea is good
  18. AnonymousSup Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    Great idea.
  19. Gunslinger Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    Hi, I'm a retard and the last wheel on my bus is about to spin off pretty soon -

    Could someone explain to this old fart(er) exactly what is being proposed here and exactly how it's different from what is already going on?

    "Bringing Anonymous to Enturbulation"

    I've been here for 3 months - and so has Anonymous. What are you talking about?

    And talk slow - me am retard.
  20. amaX Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    well, howdy pardner.
    i think what the whippersnappers is talkin' bout is to have us a thangie we kin click on to make whut we post say "anonymous." the onliest people that would be able tuh see who writ the post would be the moderators of this joint.

    they got some more newfangled ideers 'bout not counting them anonymous anonymous posts in yer list of regular anonymous posts. and iffen yer too danged lazy to log in and you decide to read the boards anyways? you'll just see a bunch of anonymous anonymous postings.

    i thank it's a cospiracy to confuse us oldtimers. but we'll learn 'em one thang: you give us three or four years of practice with this and we'll git it! us oldsters gots ta stick together!

    hope that explained it a little bit. :D

    i actually don't think it's a bad idea and i look forward to trying to guess who the anonymous anonymous posters are if they start using that in here.
  21. Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    Big vote also. Good idea is good.
  22. Gunslinger Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    Ok - now someone explain to me - without going overboard on the oh-so hilarous shit-kicker dialect ;) - exactly how this is a benefit to the overall Target?

    'Cause I have a sneaky suspicion that this could lead to a lot of tinfoil hats in the future.....
  23. Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    Anonymous didn't start as a tactic for tackling Co$. Ppl were posting anonymously, nothing more nothing less. It meant that reasoning and logic outweighed ego and reputation.

    Whether it can be made to work with Co$ trolling like mofo's I don't know, but if it can, it would be brilliant.

    You want an idea testing, throw it in and watch ppl chew it up, and spit the good bits out.

    That's essentially what's being proposed.
    Why would that benefit Chanology? because it is a very powerful way of generating answers and solutions, and there will always be problems to be resolved as long as we're battling Co$.
  24. Lrononymous Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    This is a fantastic idea.
  25. downstat Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    It would be a great idea for some topics.

    To gunsling, it means one area of the forum would have all posters show up as "anonymous". See all those names at the left there? imagine they were all the same (or blank) with no avatars. It allows for persuation of 'ideas' and mostly dick jokes and random pissing into the idea pool. It is usually followed with attempt to outshock the last outrageous comment and will end up with a lot of 'illegal' sounding comments. Or not.
  26. anon5754 Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    The random dick jokes are usually the domain of /b/ on 4chan, the various /i/'s aren't free of insults but they tend to stay on target and don't suffer from too much thread shitting.

    The pros of anonymous posting:
    No alias is seen to have contributed more or less than another so individual people cannot be singled out. As it currently stands, Co$ could look at the users with the most useful posts and just focus their efforts on namefagging those users or tying up their spare time, which would have the effect of actually attacking the 'leadership', as the true leaders are either the people who have the most popular ideas or those with the most time for the cause.

    Secondly, there can be no human biases and no pussyfooting around people's delicate feelings. Consider someone who doesn't share your PoV and you've previously had an argument with them, you're less likely to give their idea your backing. Perhaps you know someone is wrong, but you know they're skilled at arguing and take stuff personally, you might not say something that would otherwise be said. Similarly, you're more likely to agree with someone who shares your values. In an anonymous environment there can be no alliances with people. When someone gets shit all over by everyone for their crappy idea, their reputation is left unsoiled, catty in-fighting is impersonal because words have no author.

    Thirdly, people represent a persona through the narrative of dialogue, which tends to be non-contradictory and use rationalisation to defend their reputation. This narrative is broken into ideas, it is the ideas that make it that are important not the narrative. In an anonymous environment I can offer a completely contradictory view that debunks my own opinion without damaging my persona, I can viciously argue against myself. I can show my dedication to an idea by representing multiple viewpoints for and against it, as can everyone. Each post has its own persona, and can only be judged by its content, so I can attack or support different ideas within someone's narrative in multiple posts, without seeming like a hypocrite. (call this the positive side of sock-puppetry)

    I'm not calling for an end to accountability, both the hacks mentioned earlier in this thread have logging enabled so illegal and otherwise damaging posts can be seen by mods and the poster can be removed.
  27. Consensus Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    An interesting suggestion. Implementation may be difficult. If we allow users to post anonymously, anyone could post child smut or whatever and get us in legal trouble.

    Of course, we could just give you the option to hide your name, so mods can still know who posted what and ban people who make inappropriate posts... but I don't think people will trust it to be 'anonymous' then.

    My overall thought is 'if it's not working, don't change it.' If you need to post something anonymously, there are other places to post. You can also register another account. Hell, anyone can register a name 'anonymous38312.' The only thing not anonymous about this is that we can tell what else you've posted on this forum. Is that really a bad thing? I know when I see a really good or really bad post, I instinctively click the user's name and see what else they've posted. Patterns emerge, y'know?
  28. Blu Aardvark Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    I think that's more or less what's being suggested. You'd still have to be registered and logged in to post, but you'd have the option of displaying as anonymous.

    On the one hand, it'd let Anonymous discuss matters in a habitat more like Anonymous is accustomed to. You'd be able to see a person post without going "oh no, not that fag again".

    On the other hand, it'd have the potential to escalate witchhunts, and the scifags would have an easier time performing their usual shit - possibly even posting illegal content and then claiming Anonymous was responsible as an excuse to further their sinister agenda.

    I'm of the opinion that we're probably better off under the current system.
  29. kingler5 Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    Great if it works
  30. Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    In long posts people will still spot writing style, and patters, but it is the purest form of hive mind that you will get. Mod's can easily still see exactly who's posting and do their job :

    You just need a small mod to the display template,
    a quick easy hack to it would be like :
    (psudo)

    if ($ForumSection = $Anonimized {
    if $userrights < $mod { echo $AuthorName }
    else { echo "<a href='./member.php?u=$userID'>$AuthorName</a> }
    }

    (I haven't checked out what the suggested readilly available vbulletin addons do exactly)
  31. Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    I believe this is a concept that is worth exploring.
    Is it REALLY needed, maybe not... but it would make us more effective, be safer for some things, good introduction to this style of thought/posting for our new allies+general public.


    * possibility: all user names are hidden when the viewer is not logged in, so at a glance it looks like a completely anonymous message board

    ^^^^^^^This, Is a great idea. (yes it would be a bit harder to follow for those not logged in... GOOD... this is serious business here... osa and all.) Not sure if its implementable (?)

    One section of the board would be all that needs to be this way. (or a small tied in board with anonymous posting enabled). There is alot of benefit to being able to tie user name to ideas (for PMs etc, IRL projects etc). But a brainstorming "forced anonymous" section would be great.
    --- Is it possible to have a small one section forum (as mentioned) that is tied into enturb (running less meaty forum software, or whatever)-- Could have forced anonymous posting on that one subsection, but DISALLOW posting unless the user is currently registered/logged into enturb? This way the mods would not only be able to tie the user to whom they are on enturb, but also gives them a bannable target if someone COS trolls or posts 'illegal' pictures, etc. ie. -- You become an asshat on the forced-anon board, it gets you dropped from enturb. Likewise, we wouldnt get spammed by those not registered on enturb.
    (OR, we could just do it as a subsection on enturb forums, just seemed like it might take more coding... although someone addressed it already.)
    Yes, yes, I know there ARE places we can go to post like that, that solution is not a good intro for people new to the concept.. learning curve is very high, and there could be value to having it tied to enturbulation. (Post retention, idea focus, etc)


    WHY are we even talking about this? (for the old-guard/others who are confused)

    1) I believe (and many others) that it is the absolute best way to find workable solutions to problems, and to come up with new ideas. It removes all bias attached to individual identity for evaluation. It removes all self censorship due to shame or worry of ridicule.
    It cuts concepts/ideas/stories down to the basest form of thought where you can easily picture person X-Y-Z in that situation, allows you to picture the concept in your mind without association at all. (Yes, you may still be able to figure out who posted sometimes, doesn't really matter.)

    2) It actually eliminates (I know it sounds counter-intuitive) flame wars, other non-productive side-tracks.

    3) Safer/safety. If you don't want to be identified by the OSA/COS/Whatever, it gives you a place to "discuss" stuff. Stuff that people shouldn't be talking about here... (NO, not illegal stuff..) I mean stuff like, if you are married, city you were in, your house/apartment etc ALL kinds of stuff on these boards that if you go back through and read every post by a certain user which you are trying to identify---- You can build up a picture of the person without knowing who they are. Might look something like:

    MALE, lives in St. Louis, can drink so is over 21, votes rebublican, lives in suburbs, lives near a cost-cutters-mcdonalds-servicestation, worked 4 jobs mentioned, owns two cats, has a live in girlfriend, sees parents on a regular basis (also in st. louis?), drives a sentra. Knows IRL(?) the following people: (LIST).
    --
    See how that can add up? and hose you? I could find this person given that information, easily. (Heck, just 2 past jobs would probably be enough, or 1 past job and type of car)
    --
    So anyway, it would let people share a bit without worrying about the danger of doing so.
    (NOTE: to get around this problem.... I use more than one registered user-name here, and frequently post things that are just out-right untrue/false as regards identifying information, and you should too!)


    4) I know there are some anon on "other boards" who keep requesting: "Pass that on to enturb", "someone post that on enturb"... etc etc.. because they absolutely refuse to post at a site which requires registration and does not use "forced anon" posting.

    5) While the PROJECT is the main goal here! It would be interesting to expose people who are unfamiliar with the concept of "the hive-mind" to it in person. Let them see how it works without having to lurk. Lets those we invite to "join anonymous/with anonymous" in these protests etc see it, and actually "BE" anon in the posting sense also. It MAY assist us in some of the problems other boards are having... where they feel they are being invaded by newfags and cancer (bawwww). This way people who "lurk here" will not only be able to participate in the project faster but be aclimatized for other environments more quickly as well.

    tk;dr: Why yes it is. :/ Just skim it, or not.
  32. King Nerd Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    I am in full support of this idea.
  33. Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    I support this plan.

    We just need to make sure we weed through the area to filter the useful input from the trolling and assorted nonsense.
  34. Manumission Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    ^^^
    THIS
  35. wogtart Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    Has my vote. Bring it on.


    Edit:
    THIS ^^^^ is why. It's already happening.
  36. twatrabbit Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    yes very useful. Anonymous posting allows for faster development of ideas and gets rid of community baggage, If Co$ ups its game(unlikely I'm sure considering their penchant for footbullets) Anons will have to go into R&D mode again. so while it's not immediately necessary, It may become necessary. what makes us so dangerous in a media war is our ability to evolve quickly, at the moment our opponent is still trying to crawl onto dry land, but we may need the extra bit of evolutionary horsepower.

    I'm also tempted to dump my username on a regular basis. I tend to Lurk Moar so not that much of an issue but it's what I've always done in IRC, I don't like being the same person for any extended period of time, I've always felt more comfortable contributing without my identity being a factor(I find it's more of a kick when an idea is taken solely on it's merit).
  37. FelixF'anon Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    I Concur.

    I think this might be best implemented in the "Think Tank" sub-forum. It's actually what I expected to find when I first checked it out.
  38. Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    YES DO IT!
  39. A_nonchalant Member

    Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    I'll throw another vote in there. This is a good idea. :D
  40. Re: Bringing anonymous to enturbulation

    DO IT QUICK. Maybe we can reduce the cocksucking that is going on, and the hey i'm cool look at me stuff! Lack of anonymity sucks!

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