Discussion in 'GoldBase' started by xenubarb, Jan 6, 2009.

  1. Obi-Wan-anon Member


    This is why a sensible, well written flyer needs to be made up and passed to the RESIDENTS of Riverside county. There has to be a PUBLIC hearing before this is officially put on the books. This restricts them more that the random Anon.

    Unless it's something that directly affects them, people don't normally go to council meetings.

    We have to make sure that the residents outside gold are aware of this. Stone and the cult will try everything they can to get this buried, or have a "quick" hearing (stuffed with "residents" of gold).

    Locals, watch the papers, keep up with this. There is STILL a chance that this can be overturned. Provide dox to the other members of the board.

    Questions to ask:

    If you're afraid of protesters at gold, why are the spikes and wire on the inside of the fence?
    Why not have this same type of fencing on the entire compound, and not just surrounding the residential area?
    Why doesn't the business out there (Golden Era studios) have that type of protection (I believe the guards are at the gates to the residence, not the studio.)

    Why is a residential area allowed to emit noise at 110db without police intervention?
    Why is this noise used only when the protesters show up?
  2. Obi-Wan-anon Member


    Oh, this is getting better and better.

    Riverside county has their OWN legal staff!!!

    The Office of County Counsel renders legal services to the county. This includes representing and advising the officers and employees of the county in matters of civil concern. The County Counsel does not provide legal advice to private citizens of the county. The Office of County Counsel also represents other public agencies when not in conflict with its primary duty to represent the county and its Board of Supervisors. Other public agencies include but are not limited to the courts, the judges, certain special districts and school districts located within the County of Riverside.

    3535 10th Street, Suite 300
    Riverside CA, 92501-3674

    3535 10th Street, Suite 300
    Riverside CA, 92501-3674

    (951) 955-6300

    (951) 955-6322 3rd Floor

    Monday - Friday, 8a.m. - 5p.m.

    Fax Number on 2nd Floor (951)955-6363

    Another new link in the chain of evidence. How can the CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD of supervisors allow an outside lawyer to draft ordinances for the county, when the Office of the County Counsel's primary duty is to represent the county and its Board of Supervisors. Why ask for the cult' lawyer's help? Who paid for his time? Where is he licenced?
  3. PAnonA Member


  4. Obi-Wan-anon Member


    BTW, is this the same guy?

    Nothing about Constitutional Law. But he can add County Advisor to his list...
  5. themadhair Member


    Man asks an interesting question.
  6. amaX Member


    Pick your battles: this is only 50 ft.; other cities in the area have ordinances similar to this one on their books; and this is the EFB.
  7. TheBitch Member


    Nnot a big deal to have outside counsel propose legislation... it happens all the time. It's 99% of what lobbyists do in fact, so no.. there really is no fire there.
  8. restim Member


    I think Alhadeff's participation goes far beyond the proposal of legislation.

    At 53:20 of the first meeting, Supervisor Buster asks County Counsel Joe S. Rank some hard questions about the ordinance, which Rank flubs. At 55:00, then Chairman Wilson asks cult legal whore Alhadeff if he wants "to address this item".

    Alhadeff's response starts with:

    Maybe my tinfoil is too tight, but it sounds to me like Alhadeff wrote the ordinance.

    In the second meeting, Stone invites Alhadeff to participate in revising the actual ordinance.

    In the third meeting, Alhadeff is the expert who responds first to questions about the application of the ordinance.

    The office of County Counsel has its primary obligation to the Board of Supervisors, and thus indirectly to the entire electorate of corrupt Rivercide County. Cult legal whore Alhadeff has primary obligation to the culties.

    Maybe Alhadeff's role in this is normal, but it sure as shit strikes me as profoundly improper.
  9. TheBitch Member


    It is entirely PROBABLE that he wrote the proposed legislation himself. Look, I've lobbied with lawyers / others in my own profession before. It is NOT uncommon to even have representatives of industry advise legislative committees on the wording of legislation and to have the industry's lawyers give their opinions regarding legislative impact statements.

    That's how the system OFTEN works irl. You can feel as uncomfy as you wanna about Bush's energy policy having been written by industry execs behind closed doors with Cheney all you want, but it's the way business is fucking done.

    Take off the tinfoil.


    Process-wise there's no smoking gun there that I can see, AND there's an element of deniability present for legislators when you can put the outside lawyer on the spot and say, "Is this going to hinder _______" and they say no.
  10. Zak McKracken Member


    hey, wait.
    Isn't this the same guy who wrote the Necronomicon??

    Normal? Uh, no.

    Xenu save us :((((((((((
  11. MaryannMobley Member


    It doesn't matter where we protest...all that matters is that we protest and why we protest!
    These criminals have front organizations all over the place, we can protest anywhere! This is so minor it doesn't even deserve to be disscussed to death. Lets concentrate on the January protests and being there!
    WE ARE ANONYMOUS...WE ARE LEGION, we are not bothered by petty shit!
  12. i'mglib Member


    Thanks so much for this intelligent observation (and I'm not being sarcastic, in case that's what it sounds like. I really mean it). Hell yes it seems improper. Alhadeff seemed to be the only person who actually knew what the ordinance said. Even the county's counsel, who supposedly worked with him, didn't seem to have a clue. Stone had to ask ALHADEFF whether people would be allowed at all to protest in front of Gold. Alhadeff said one word: "Yes." WTF? So, THEIR LAWYER gets to decide whether or not people get to protest at Gold, and where????? How did Stone not know the answer to that important question? How does that make any sense? Would they let David Allyn Dokich's lawyer decide if people get to protest in front of sex offenders' houses?

    It truly seemed like the supervisors, especially Stone, and the supervisor's counsel, did not understand the ordinance. How do you stand 50 feet away from a property, or across the street, if they own BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET? For a distance of about a mile? How do you stand on the sidewalk, IF THERE IS NO SIDEWALK? They pretended (or even worse, genuinely didn't know) that the ordinance said 50 feet from the PROPERTY LINE, not 50 from the residence. How do you wrap your brain around that one? What if they have 800 acres, with a road through it, and one little shack that someone lives in? Where do you get to protest? No one knew.

    The whole thing is slimy, cynical, dirty politics. The supervisors didn't give a crap, except for Buster and Wilson. Stone had just been sworn in as Chairman, so I believe they didn't want to embarrass him, or maybe they had their own pet project they needed his vote on somewhere else. It just seemed like pure politics. At the end of the day, Stone will get 600 votes from the slaves at Gold (and btw, the polling place is ON THEIR PROPERTY so the slaves don't even have to leave to vote) and that's all he cared about. That's 600 guaranteed votes in Stone's district.

    Also, after the meeting, Stone's wife and son stood there talking to Muriel Dufresne, the head of PR at Gold, like they were old friends. Stone's wife hugged Katherine Frasier, the lone Scientologist who was going to speak (and Jeff Hawkin's ex wife), until Alhadeff said that she wasn't going to. They probably have parties together, and maybe Stone goes and plays golf there. Who knows.

    I am convinced that Thomas Jefferson could have shown up at that meeting and spoken against the ordinance, and it still would have passed. I know people who live in Riverside, and know the politics, and Jeff Stone is all about doing favors for special interest groups to get votes. And everyone hates him, until he does a favor FOR THEM.

    So in the end, at least there were some pretty good articles, and a lot of questions asked. The moldy rock got turned over, and there were some ugly bugs under it. Those ugly things are still there, but at least a little light was shed...and hopefully still more to come. The MSNBC article was particularly good. It quoted "Madison" (lol, she couldn't remember her "name" when they called it), and they used a really good quote from Graham, who pointed out, What if you wanted to picket the White House if this ordinace were in place? You couldn't because the president lives there.

    Graham also suggested that if they really cared about protecting residents, why not rewrite the ordinance so that the ban only targets property that is soley residential....not mixed use? This fell on deaf ears because the vote was already decided long before anyone walked into the room.

    After thinking a lot about this, I think it was good that at least some light was shined on the fraud and abuse of Scientology, and how the Riverside supervisors seem to dance to their tune, because the ordinance was a done deal. There were reporters from the Press Enterprise, MSNBC, and Desert Sun whose articles have garnered a lot of great comments. Also, there was an LA Times reporter, who it seems is still working on an article on the subject. I think there might be a larger story in the works, too.
  13. i'mglib Member


    I disagree.

    It certainly does matter where people protest.

    Gold Base is one of the most important facilities in the Scientology syndicate. Possibly THE most important. Why on earth would we not care about being able to protest there? Why discourage the people who do care?

    Also, it is important that the people in Riverside know that they have a huge, powerful cult operating in their County, and the County Supervisors seem to be working in collusion with them. If people think that's not an important battle, then by all means, go fight a different battle. There can be many fronts in this war.
  14. amaX Member


    Excuse me, but haven't members of EFB already gone back out there and protested in the area that's allowed? They even said they'd be able to protest out there in the council meeting. Other cities in the area have similar ordinances already on the books.

    I have to question how much more effort Anonymous must put into this problem when it seems to mostly be a bunch of egofag non-Anon's who don't adhere to how Anonymous has been protesting for the past 12 months. They gotta do it their way and then we're supposed to help clean up the fucking mess?

    Along the lines here I seem to remember AO and AGP wanting arrests to happen and crap to be drug into court. Does anyone else recall that?

    Every place we protest is just as important as any other. You can still fucking protest out there at Gold where you educate no one and very few people inside even know you're there, and the only person it pisses off is DM.

    Just do what the law says. All the rest of us in cities around the world do what the law says when we protest against the cult.

    The GOLD Base anti-scientology protesters are DOING IT RIGHT. This is the kind of publicity the cult dreads. Up close and personal.

    The right to protest is fundamental in this country. Like most politicians they are voting with their wallets. I've heard that gold base was a polling station in the last election. The scilo's will use this as a precedent to try to severely limit other protest areas as well. Considering what goes on at gold base, labor abuses, the materials produced there, rpf etc. It's key to have the right to protest their headquarters where it will have the most impact and this ordinace strangles that opportunity by severely limiting the area in which to protest. Do you believe that A.) Jeff Stone performed the hatchet cull job of anonymous internet postings in the best interest of the town himself or B.) Jeff Stone was spoonfed this shit by OSA and is in scientology's back pocket? Real tough, but i'm gonna have to go with operation B on this one.
  17. basil Member


    Surely that alone makes it worthwhile?

    It's the internet postings of the protests on youtube at the gates that reach millions and are most enjoyable to watch as well.

    Why on earth does some anon.s take it upon themselves to HATE on other critic,s? Negativity does not add to the overall equation. I applaud the efforts of the sci critic,s who have the conviction to stand before the machine and rail against the abuses of scientology.
  20. restim Member


    This surprises you? There will be no complaints from the culties using this ordinance until the ordinance is revisited by the Board of Supervisors in 6 months. Then, after the ordinance has been confirmed, the culties will not hesitate to complain that picketers are in violation.

    In the meantime, thread after thread here is devoted to endless bawwwwing whenever Youtube, a private company, takes the easy way out and removes videos in response to bogus complaints under the DMCA, another freedom-hostile piece of legislation that was composed with the interests of one single group in mind to the exclusion of everyone else who is affected. People generally blame Youtube, but the real problem is the DMCA, a shitty special-interest-driven piece of legislation that erodes individual freedoms to benefit special interests.

    But hey, nobody should be upset about this ordinance. There are still lots of other freedoms that haven't yet been taken away.
  21. amaX Member



    You know what? Good luck to the GOLD Base anti-Sci protesters in their bid to stop the Riverside County Council from making up a law that is similar to laws already on the books in other cities so a precedent has already been set!

    GO GO GO, GOLD Base Anti-Sci Protesters! You're doing it just right for you!

    Your tactics are awesome and perfect and just what you wanted for yourselves and I retract any negative thing I have said about you all.
  22. Forseti Member


    AGP did "ok" at speaking. He kind of stayed on target for the most part. It would have been nice if he had dressed more respectfully though. I can imagine that it is hard for AGP to not scream "CULT!" in that setting, so I give him credit for trying. He made a couple of valid points.

    Who was the middle aged lady with the short brown hair without a mask. Was that Xenubarb? Anyways, she did a good job.

    The girl with the mask was obviously very nervous and some of her views seemed somewhat skewed, but she did make a couple of good points. I give her credit for getting up there and staying on target.

    Graham Berry did excellent. I am sure if he had longer than 6 minutes, he could have shined even more.

    AO....oh boy.....he was so far off target. Did he think he was a a protest or something? All he needed to do is intelligently explain WHY the ordinance is a violation of our 1st amendment rights. All he did was bitch about the cult's practices just like he was at a protest. I know his intentions were good, but it was just aweful. He gets too excited and wound up and he has trouble thinking rationally when he is like that.

    Anyways, at least they all showed up and tried. That's more than I can say for the rest of us who live local to Riverside.
  23. fotoanon Member


    Not Barb. But I will not nickfag her here. ;)
  24. francie Member


    Follow the law? The point with all this was to stop them from MAKING a law making it illegal to protest at Gold Base.

    And the way I read it, there is no place to protest that is safe. Having a lawyer and/or County Supervisor "say" in a meeting that they "can" protest, doesn't make it true; doesn't make it safe for protestors. The written ordinance is the governing document. What was said at some meeting in the past is irrelevant.

    I'll bet that Scientology will "let" protestors picket at Gold Base until there's a great big group of them... then they'll call the cops. And Scientology will let all the unlucky Anons and critics picked up by the cops hire themselves a lawyer to defend themselves. And Scientology will laugh their heads off at the "suckers".

    Hubbard always wrote and said "If it's not written, it isn't true." It may not be a truism everywhere in the world, but the Scientologists believe it, and that's what they could have been using in this case.

    [Scientologist to picketer] "Oh yes, little missie, you can protest right outside our gate. Come on up to the gate and protest. That's okay. Yes, come a little closer. Bring your little friends, too. Would you like some tea while you picket?"

    [On the phone] "Er... Officer... there are these thugs outside the gate that are threatening us. There's an ordinance against picketing here and our religious fellows are frightened. Can you come on over and take care of it for us? You can? Oh, thank you, Officer." <click>
  25. adhocrat Member


    Intent counts in the law. If the people who passed the law says it OK, then a court would have to look at that as part of the ruling. And it would be highly appealable if not allowed.

    But, here, you're [STRIKE]probably[/STRIKE] certainly right.
  26. restim Member


    Although cult stooge Stone and cult legal whore Alhadeff both assured the Board that there is some place that picketers could picket while still complying with the ordinance, neither of them could identify where that compliant place might be. Not sure there is much in the way of grounds for appeal until that compliant place is identified, which is supposed to happen Real Soon Now, although no deadline was set.

    I don't think the cult is going to use this new weapon until after it is confirmed in six months, but one never knows for sure.
  27. PAnonA Member


    Eh... what?
  28. TinyDancer Member

    Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

    Just got copied in on this:

  29. JFawkeson Member


    If you've never heard of the, um... different opinions of Smurf, you need to lurk moar.
  30. imariscent Member

    Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

    ok, now where do I sign? J/K

    This is a well thought out letter. It explains exactly what I been thinking all along. Every news media should see, and read this out loud in their news room.
  31. Zander Member


    I did lurk moar, but how do you explain HS giving away PMs? Some OGs have stated that HS switched sides before.
  32. Your Mom Member


    Let's just finish this by saying this is old news, already discussed to death, not likely to end anywhere good, and leave it at that, okay?

    We don't need anyone else getting infracted for flying off the handle on this topic again.
  33. JFawkeson Member


    All I was saying was it wouldn't be a surprise.
  34. adhocrat Member

    Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

    wrong thread

    also cocks

    Yup. That alone makes it very worthwhile.

    The RivCo supes were left dazed and confused, but Press-Enterprise columnist Dan Bernstein managed to get it right:

    A Sticky Picket | Columns | | Southern California News | News for Inland Southern California

    (Me: Really? Their motto is, "Ready! Aim! Fire!"? How perfectly fitting.)
  37. AngryGayPope1 Member

    Clarification on protesting

    It's come to my attention that for the moment the 50 foot limit on gold protests will not be enforced until more info about gold is in. I believe that when the location of residences in gold is determined we won't have a problem picketing there. We just need to stay in the area around the guard shack and certain other places AWAY from residences.

    1. No targeting residences
    2. No targeting individuals - shout "scientology is evil" not "Miscavige is evil" - "LRH died on psych drugs would probably be acceptable.

    Now if the cult starts putting sleeping bags and chemical toilets in the guard shack or housing people in other nearby non-housing there will be an issue.

    The politicians are basically doing what judge rico did in my ro cases. They are cutting the baby in half so to speak.

    1. The scientologists make a stink over nothing
    2. The politicians cut the nothing in half and give each side a piece of meaninglessness.
    3. Protests go on mostly unaffected. So I can't protest at HGB bldg on hwd blvd LA. So what? I've just made a mess of things for them elsewhere like Gold and Winter Wonderland.
  38. TomVorm Member


    Just made the "front page" of the online

    Scientology opponents bristle at protest limits in Riverside County | L.A. Now | Los Angeles Times

    Scientology opponents bristle at protest limits in Riverside County
    10:38 AM, January 9, 2009

    Opponents of the Church of Scientology say their 1st Amendment rights are being quashed by Riverside County after the Board of Supervisors passed an ordinance requiring protesters to stay 50 feet from the property line of a massive Scientology campus near Hemet.

    The ordinance approved Tuesday was fast-tracked, meaning it did not receive the customary second hearing, and was sponsored by Supervisor Jeff Stone, who said protesters had crossed onto private property and were infringing on the quality of life at the church’s Golden Era Productions compound on Gilman Hot Springs Road.

    Three protesters showed up Thursday outside the gates and within minutes were swarmed by Riverside County Sheriff’s deputies in four squad cars. They were told they could not shout at specific individuals inside and could not block the entrance. Deputies also demanded the driver’s license of a reporter covering the protest and tried to interrogate him. A sheriff’s official later said that was inappropriate.

    Church officials say they have received numerous bomb and death threats in the last month alone as protesters the world over have ramped up demonstrations against Scientology.

    “It is my job to keep our people out of harm’s way,” said Catherine Fraser, director of public affairs for Golden Era Productions, which disseminates tapes and video for the church and has 500 employees. “We want to balance free speech with the right of privacy.”

    Opponents claim the church simply wants to silence protesters and keep demonstrators out of sight.

    --David Kelly
  39. TheBitch Member


    "Three protesters showed up Thursday outside the gates and within minutes were swarmed by Riverside County Sheriff’s deputies in four squad cars. They were told they could not shout at specific individuals inside and could not block the entrance. Deputies also demanded the driver’s license of a reporter covering the protest and tried to interrogate him. A sheriff’s official later said that was inappropriate."


    What differentiates protesters from the press when it comes to how "appropriate" it is/isn't to shake down people?
  40. Anonychump Member


    Oh, don't let it bother you! It's what they do. It's Scientology "backwardsthink" so, if they hate you ( for revealing their crimes) they call you a "hate" group. Look at 'suppressive person" what it really means is the exact opposite, a person they want to supress! In other words, backwardsthink, not just lies, but the complete opposite of the truth! And, I don't think you need to worry too much about this ordinance, another Anon already said on this site ( now removed) It's not where you protest, but that you protest!and, of course, WhyYouProtest!

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