Ashlee Shaner - Gold Base - Memorial

Discussion in 'GoldBase' started by exOT8Michael, Mar 4, 2009.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    She died a horrific death that traumatized those who managed to survive.

    Roadside accident deaths are often memorialized.

    It happens to be near the lair of the dwarf.

    Why is that so hard to understand?

    Once again, you pick and choose your facts as you derail threads in the name of whatever...
  2. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    I haven't read the whole case, so I might be wrong. IMHO, you put scientology too quickly out of the hook. It would be good to be sure that the driver was acting on its own volition and not executing orders. It seems that many scientologists at Gold base don't have a driving license but they certainly drive inside the property.

    TL;DR Moderate your remarks, that might be true, unless you can prove your point.
  3. Herro Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    I don't have to prove my point. I'm not the one claiming that scientology is responsible for this woman's death. People making accusations are the ones that need to provide proof. But I get what you're saying.

    Also, I never said that building a little roadside memorial would be unreasonable. All I'm saying is that, unless you have evidence that the driver of the loader was under orders to hit the other driver, you can't attribute this to scientology.
  4. Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    Incorrect. A roadside memorial is a far cry from "targeted residential picketing." But all it would take is one "866-EX-SEAORG" sign on the scene for the scilons to accuse the group of targeting a residence.
  5. Anonymous Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    Scientology makes itself above the Law of the Land.

    It won't adhere to the rules of the land.

    Therefore it is negligent homicide which is the common thread in most deaths attributed to Scientology.

    Had they obeyed the laws of the land, Ashlee would be alive.

    She was only a Wog and the laws of the land are wog laws.

    When the same type of negligent homicide and cover ups continue to happen because of Scientology's willful disdain for the law of the lands, it becomes murder, much like the drunk driver continues to drink and drive.
  6. Relyt Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    I still don't see how it was a homicide, if it was the woman's fault for being a terrible driver. All I've seen from these posters is: "It happened outside of a Scientology base; therefore, it's their fault". That's like saying if I plowed my vehicle into a utility pole outside of an orphanage, then it's the people who run the orphanage fault.
  7. kissyfur Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    awwwww lookit you trying to get the thread back on track after 4 or 687 pages of arguments. *mwah!*
  8. rummychick99 Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    If the memorial is in front of a dwelling you will have Scientology trying to use this ordinance.

    Then you have to look to the definitions for enforcement.

    Is the memorial itself a targeted picket?
    The definition of picketing is: the posting of a person or group for a demonstration or protest.

    So it has to be a person according the definition...not the cross you stick in the road or whatever else you put up.

    Anyone who has not been namefagged may not want to protest right now in any questionable area or way.

    I can also see Fraser abusing this to namefag people..and then the idea of citizen's arrest spreads to other cities. is another problem. What does the word "posting" mean in this ordinance??? It is not defined. Do we have some "vagueness"?

    Posting can mean:

    a sign posted in a public place as an advertisement


    assignment to a post, command, or particular location, esp. in a military or governmental capacity.
  9. Anonymous Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    Sounds like you didn't read the last couple pages of the thread.

    lurk moar
  10. kissyfur Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    only if the pole jumped out in the street without its lights on, from what I can gather
  11. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    Not correct, Relyt.
    The front loader was a Scientology owned or rented construction vehicle, as I understand it, under their orders and control for a Gold Base project in progress at night. The irresponsibility of the workers was the main reason for the death. Ashlee was not a bad driver as far as I can tell. I think she deserves a memorial and some respect which the cult is not giving her at all.
  12. Anonymous Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    A few posters on this board aren't either.

    Respect that is.

    Treat her like a wog and shit.
  13. Haruhi Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    It wasn't Scientology that killed this girl, it was negligent Scientologists.

    The cans make you stupid.

    And so does the Internet.
  14. 33755 Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    If a farmer has a cow and bad fences, and the cow gets out, stands on the road, is hit by a car and the accident kills a human, then the farmer can be held liable for the accident. Same with a dog in the road, human in car swerves, goes off road and is killed. Owner of dog can be held liable if there are leash laws in the area.

    All vehicles on a road have to be licensed. The roads belong to the government (or "public") and people must be licensed to drive on them. Same goes for heavy equipment vehicles.

    Construction vehicles or slow moving vehicles (such as tractors, tractor plus wagon, combines, etc.) have their own regulations about WHEN they can be on the public roads. And if they're on the public roads they have other regs as to how they must have lights or flags or markers up the road alerting oncoming drivers of their presence.

    Sea Org staffers routinely have no drivers licenses or expired drivers licenses. They are not "let out" to go renew their licenses. The Church of Scientology managers and "higher ups" routinely order Sea Org staffers to do things that they are not legally allowed to do - like driving heavy equipment on a public road at night without lights or warning markers up the road. There is no way that a Sea Org person would have had permission to operate COS's heavy equipment without orders from someone to do so - where, and when and why (for what project).

    The presence of that heavy equipment on the road at that time at that location is because of COS managers or executives ordering it to be there. The Sea Org staffer probably didn't know any better (though he should have).

    Any sane human being (who is not a scientologist) can see why this is a case of negligence by COS. Only a scientologist would defend it and try to lay the blame on the driver.

    Oh right - she "pulled it in"?

  15. Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    Troll set on ignore. Buh bye, bitch.
  16. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    THIS ^^^^
  17. Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    I think that the new rule can and will be used to apply to anything and anyone depending upon the cop at the scene and his/her mistaken interpretations of the rules and his/her discussions/orders from Scientology.

    Legally the new rules don't look top me like they apply to anything at Scientology's facilities yet cops are going to keep arresting people or not arresting them based upon the lies and slander that Scientology feeds the cops.

    Some cops are going to know the rules, some are going to believe Scientology, some will refuse to read the copies of the new rules that Anonymous and Old Guard hands to them, some will look it over, some will radio for instructions from their supervisors.

    I think it's going to be a free-for-all out there.
  18. Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    No on all points. The Scientology tractor driver was on the wrong side of the road without lights, a driving license, nothing. Ashlee, sister, and her mother in two cars drove around the curve and Ashell slammed in to the skip loader's blade, removing her head.

    Scientology was running a trator at night in the dark without any lights on the tractor on the wrong side of the highway. No flag men, no signs, nothing.
  19. Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    Yes, there are good cops, bad cops, and okay cops. Smart cops and dumb cops. Red cops and blue cops. But most of them respond well to civility. Be friendly and they will soon start siding with the protestors rather than the scilon pricks.
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    Scientology Sucks. And it Kills People.
  21. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    Do you think it might be good if donuts were applied to the situation by anon protesters as a token of friendliness to the cops?
  22. Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884


    and caek
  23. AnotherMrPink Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    Get a long stick, tie string to end, tie donut to end of string. Lead cops away from Catherine Frasier and Tommy Davis.

    if this does not work they are corrupt. Replace donut with cash.
  24. eddieVroom Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    Probably not. Some may view that as an insult. Beyond that, on the few occasions I've had to talk with LAPD officers, they have always refused my offers of a friendly cup of coffee. I think it's "professional paranoia" -- never know what some jackass may try to slip them.

    That said, making an offer of (non-donut) cake and coffee, though they will likely decline, can help establish rapport.
  25. kissyfur Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    Coming from a family of law enforcement, I can tell you that cops are NOT supposed to take anything free, coffee, food anything, from businesses (diner wanting to give cop coffee for free) or in this case a protester as it could be considered quid pro quo or choosing sides. I suppose some could but it puts them in a bad position to even have been offered.

    Oh yeah and the donut thing? Won't make you any friends in the police dept. Even if you mean it in a funny ironic way... yeah not funny :)
    Same with pigs in blankets and bacon.
  26. avbb Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    I bring caek and brownies to our raids and offer then to any cops, but every offer has been turned down due to that fact they must be viewed as impartical. Rivercide cops will most likely refuse any offers of doughnuts or caek or anything else, but it never hurts to ask.
  27. Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    Geez, the donuts are a metaphor for just generally being friendly.

    Coming from a family of law enforcement, I can tell you that, in an ambiguous situation, cops can and will choose sides based on who seems civilized and who seems batshit crazy. If both sides seem crazy, that's when all bets are off.
  28. Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    No cop sane enough would touch food being dispensed in public like that, and no cop sane enough would be caught being seen accepting food from propesters by Scientology collie molesters.

    Remember in Clearwater in 1998 and 1999 we were handing out Scientology Kills T-Shirts to the cops after they went off duty and returned to the protest specifically to get shirts? LOL!

    The only way a cop would be bribable with chocolate marble doughnuts is if they were each individually wrapped in their own store-dispensed packs.
  29. RHill Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    "Nove told officers he was working late the night Ashlee died to finish some work for the Church of Scientology's Golden Era Productions.

    "According to an investigation report, Nove, who was employed with Taseco Corp, a Redlands-based contractor, had an expired driver's license since 1992. During the investigation, California Highway Patrol Officer Eric Nolte said no warning lights, flares or construction workers were on the road to guide motorists around the tractor."
    Scientology --- Nove manslaughter case (Ashlee Shaner)
  30. Relyt Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    Sorry, folks. I made an error. I just hadn't read thoroughly enough.
  31. TinyDancer Member

    Re: BERRY getting OSA bot calls. ADVICE PLEASE

    Sorry, no time to read the whole thread.

    There was a post on /b/ with details, including GB's and WBM's phone nos - posted about 22 Feb. Seems some /b/tards were enjoying making prank calls then. Don't know if that's related.

    inb4ura/b/tard - I went to /b/ because there was a linkback to our Operation Space Argggh thread.
  32. Anonymous Member

    Re: BERRY getting OSA bot calls. ADVICE PLEASE

    No excuses ;)

    thx for the thread, onward...
  33. Anonymous Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    It's more like saying if you drive your car through a poorly lit area and hit construction equipment being driven by an orphanage employee without any kind of safety lights who shouldn't be on the road as it is, nobody's directing traffic and there are no flares, then the people who run the orphanage are at fault.
  34. rational Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    I recall the story is more than this. Scientology management ordered the move at a bad time in a rush because someone don't want to see the construction mess. Without checking the story, if construction work was on going at the time, only Scilons management are capable of that negligence - working at night with no lighting. If construction wasn't going on, will an employee do that on his own initiative for no particular reason? Very unlikely.
  35. whoever Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    I do think the negligence of the CoS caused the accident. But I wouldn't equate it with the death of Lisa McPherson, who died because of the practice of Scientology--and because those attending her watched her going downhill for more than two weeks and deliberately did nothing to save her.

    It's certainly a tragedy that Ashlee died. A memorial to remind people about the accident would be okay. But trying to liken it to Lisa McPherson's death seems out of proportion. It makes Anonymous look like it inflates things to serve its own ends. Opportunistic, exploitative, etc.
  36. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    Only OSA does that.
  37. whoever Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    Right, OSA does it a lot. We don't want to emulate them, do we?

    I know this doesn't seem to be a popular view around here, but I think Anons (and other Scientology critics as well) are most effective when they avoid overstatement, letting cold, hard facts speak for themselves. Okay, sometimes we may debate and quibble over what those facts are. That's healthy and part of the process. I just think that, in public, it's best to be cool and on-target and not appear to be stretching things to fit an agenda.
  38. pardmepard Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    The intention wasn't to emulate, but to expose them. Their intention is exploiting for money, power and the world.

    Melodramatic is at times the only way to get peoples attention and often a side effect of trying to expose the Absurdities that is scientology.

    It was once required to plead your case, I think the memorial isn't exploitive as it is pleading the case of why we think scientology is harmful.

    How this can get turned into Anonymous being exploitive LOL OK

    I thought Anonymous wasn't worried about a rep, but yes the protesters should be worried if what they do effects the perceptions of the public they are trying to reach. Isn't it a fact though, that just exposing anything about scientology exploitive to the cause?

    Protesting is exploitive. It's meant to grab attention isn't it ?

    Tit for Tat it seems is required with scientology. Other wise we should just get on with our lives cause it would seem anything we do to protest scientology is exploitive and self serving and yes, it is.

    Will this whole exercise just gave scientology the win.

    I guess we can go home now and Keith Henson protested for nothing, went to jail for nothing, suffered fair game, death threats and jail for nothing.

    Isn't saying we are being exploitive the same as saying what are your crimes ?

    All the jokes and lulz is just as exploitive, isn't it ?

    I swear some times some of these post, reek of Leave the scientologist alone baawwww
  39. muldrake Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    It's their beliefs that lead to behavior like this. They think they can just "postulate" that doing something is safe, and it is. This is why you will see Scientologists working on slick, slanted Spanish tile roofs with no ropes or any other safety equipment, climbing into electrical vaults with no safety precautions whatsoever, and even sending out their kids to play in traffic "protected by postulates." They don't think the laws of physics apply to them.

    I have no doubt the dwarf personally micromanaged that particular clusterfuck. In this case, it's also as much the fault of TaseCo, though, who were allowing an unlicensed driver to operate heavy equipment on the highway totally illegally with no lights on, at night, in the wrong lane.

    But despite that, it's primarily the fault of the jackass driver who was actually operating the heavy equipment.

    If I were a plaintiff's lawyer in a case like this, I'd probably sue everyone in sight, including the state, county, and whoever else I could think of, and let God sort them out (which is pretty much what happened).
  40. whoever Member

    Re: Gameday 3/3 - Ordinance #884

    I'm not going to go through all that^ point by point. I'll just say that I disagree with almost all of it.

    When I say I think Anons and other critics are most effective when they avoid overstatement and let cold, hard facts speak for themselves, I am talking about (duh) effectiveness, not worrying about a rep. And if I didn't make it clear, that is my personal opinion and perception. I happen to believe that hyperbole and melodrama turn people off. And speaking of bawwwing, when you (not you personally; "you" as in anyone) say shit you can't back up (like ZOMG JEFF WAS DEAD ELEVEN HOURS!!! or SCILONS POSING AS ANONS WERE BUSTED BY THE FBI!!!), you come across as a major bawwwer--which means people will stop paying attention to you. That's all I'm saying. Do you really think making claims you can't back up or overdramatizing to get attention are a good way to protest Scientology?

    If I'm baawwwing, it ain't about leaving Scientologists alone, it's about wanting the best chance at successfully bringing the fuckers down.

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