Discussion in 'Think Tank' started by Anonymous, Jul 31, 2012.
Boy, Paul Morantz sure sounds like a real moran. HAHA GET IT!?
no, I don't get it.
Not to worry. He's a true herro. Cracks himself up all the time.
the systems nice in broke now but there has to be ideas on how to fix it or we will acomplish nothing
This quote right here is why my thread exists asking what exactly is being accomplished. The American System can not be fixed by protests. That is for sure. Trust me everyone is aware of the corruption and the government's broken nature. A lot of people are pissed off. An idea to solve most but not all problems would be to convince the American people to stop registering to vote and declaring themselves as part of a particular party. If there was a way to rid the divide and have everyone focus on the shenanigans both parties are up to rather than just the opposite party more people would demand a change in system. Right now half of Americans want to see liberal go away and the other half want to see conservatives go away. Americans need to start going to the voting booths as people not a puppet of a party.
That's disconcerting OB1
Every second of every minute of every hour of every day, we are attempting to find solutions for said problems, OB1
To think of us as being benign and without purpose. To say that there has been a directional purpose reaping no result or reward. Do you not think of your comments as being born of naivety, and you to be ill informed? OB1
Then that likely puts you in the minority regarding the value of your opinions. Assuming you are the OP, I for one consider your ramblings not only ill informed but patently offensive to those who have been working they're asses off towards eliciting real social change, as opposed to armchair Internet philosophers clouding up their political forums with their lofty ideas.
If you want to change things, focus on the things that you can change. Millions of people the world over stood up against the Iraq war. They were ignored. Why? Because by the time the gears started turning being "anti war" had become little more than a broad generalization, with little to no impact on the myriad of smaller individual forces coming together to make that war a reality.
Whether it's war or political corruption, the trick with any complex system is to pick out the weak spots and toss as many wrenches into them as you can. Keep tossing them, for as long as it takes, no matter how purposeless assholes like you seem to think the effort may be.
tldr: WITP bitches gonna bitch.
Sammy Davis performing in Germany was supposed to belong in another thread....
But, it goes with everything, just the same.
Grab all those Million Mask Marchers now while they are still networking with each other, get started on something before they lose interest.Instead of a protest get a huge amount of anons to show up to town hall meetings. They usually have Senators and Reps there. Drill them with questions. Find answers make sure they know tehy are being held accountable for their bad decisions. Just don't get tazed. lol
Rolled on the floor laughing my ass off while just about managing to remain on the good side of not puking!!!!!!
If the MMM (not that Australian cult led by the lesbo Debra, but the million mask thing) had been organised around a coherent idea (or even a series of coherent ideas) then what you suggest might have been plausible (even if that possibility was remote). A collection of people who shared a set of key ideas that motivated them to attend demonstrations can also move as a collective in pursuit of those ideas when given detailed common-sense instruction.
But, sadly, the MMM (again, not referring to the Aussie cult that kicked out their number 2 a few years ago for being a lesbo and shagging the leader Debra) isn't composed of a collective who share a set of key ideas. Rather, it is a smorgasbord of moonbattery, tinfoil, youth, over-idealism and general ignorance. Much of the reason why people attended the thing was due to them being too stupid, retarded and incapable of developing plans for affecting change – that may seem harsh, but I offer your recent thread asking people to participate in democracy as exhibit A of the cancerous bile infecting the MMM.
How many people swing by WWP posting "any anonymous in my area?". The key follow-up question: how many of those people, upon learning the non-existence of a group in their area, actually take even the first step towards establishing such? I'll answer that second one – so fucking few that it makes you wonder if it is illustrative of the uselessness of the human race. But I have no doubt that such folks happily branded a mask and attended an MMM march, content in the delusion that they actually achieved something.
OWS is a good reference here. There were enough people within that who shared certain key ideas, and that was enough for breakaway groups to form and get some real shit done. The excellent work done by Occupy Our Homes in exposing robo-signature fraud (they did the legwork for folks like Lynn Szymoniak) is a great example. The problem is that MMM doesn't have a sufficiently shared set of key ideas upon which to build.
Let me be even blunter. The disillusionment that people felt, largely due to their uselessness in being able to participate in the democratic processes, was (imho) the primary factor in MMM participation. Is your suggestion, against this background, really democratic participation? Right there, at the heart of that irony, is why MMM was a total waste of time and energy.
Above poster, you are smart.
Also, a number of people make rally cries for equality and all sorts of verbose posturing, but when it came down to it, in the case of OWS, for example, certain leaders misappropriated funds that were donated to further their obtuse mission. I recall one man staying at a luxury Manhattan hotel, paid for by folks who were shivering in tents in some encampment in the midst of the urban chaos.
When certain individuals take on that responsibility, they show themselves to be no better than whatever it is that they claim to be against. The hypocrisy is often times the same, even if the proportions of wealth distribution are on a much smaller scale - selfishness and ego prevailed most of the time, and even in situations where women had been sexually assaulted at the protests, they found no safety, support or recourse.
...Then you have some opportunists at "Your Anon News" on Twitter who raised over $30,000 and told people that they would give them t-shirts or mugs for donations and never delivered. That is a lot of money they made there, by plagiarizing the unique iconography of Anonymous, and basically turning an un-trademarked brand into their own, for money making purposes to their own benefit.
Theft - in short.
They continue to leaderfag and retweet the same propaganda with a political twist, and I do not like any of it at all.
Hmmm .. Maybe the guys at https://twitter.com/YourAnonNews .. would like to reply to that?
If you suspect any wrongdoing such as theft report it to the police. Or have you no proof?
There are some people on Twitter who have questioned those poseurs.
I think they are total fags.
Their "news: is shit.
There is proof. Ask these guys - https://twitter.com/AnonsAgainstYAN
I have a feeling you like to hear yourself speak.
This coming from the biggest new empty blowhard to post in this forum? No wai !!!!
I don't see what is wrong with reaching out to people who are motivated in actually going out in the public an doing something. If the rest of you want to be negative about it go ahead but I am sure there are positive people here who are willing to network with others. Also don't ROTFL laugh at people making suggestions it makes you look over confident and annoying. It's not appreciated and I don't tolerate that kind of behavior.Now back to what I was saying. I actually went out to a MMM event and observed, took pictures and and a little conversation with them. First off they are really nice people, second they are more intelligent than you think and nowhere where they selling any merchandise. They where however handing out free masks and shirts and at one point stepped in when a drunk was bothering a random civilian's daughter. They managed to alleviate the situation peacfully. There are people out there willing to do things and I bet they are more than willing to listen and try new ideas. All im saying is that if you want support against a corrupt government you have to get out and network and the Million Mask March folk are already doing more than sitting behind a computer bashing ideas.
I DO NOT WANT YOUR POLITICS.
The above post is a great illustration of why MMM was fail, and if participants like you continue to hide behind a sea of false-positivity then it will continue to remain fail. I don't really care if can't tolerate some uncomfortable truths, but you need to hear and understand them if you are anyway genuine about achieving shit. Your indignation does nothing to address the (rather crucial) fact that you have nothing to address the very real criticisms I laid out.
Are you ready for the most important factoid in this whole sorry mess? Pay attention because this bit is pretty crucial. 'Doing something', as in performing an action, is very different than 'doing something', as in performing some action that is worthwhile. The MMM folks have demonstrated copious capacity to do the former, but they (and, it seems, you) appear oblivious that the latter is only one that actually involves accomplishing shit.
Unfortunately, it seems that apathy, lethargy and pure stupidity are rampant. Everyone feels a burning need to 'do something', but very fucking few are actually prepared to do the legwork needed to 'do something' of merit. The MMM isn't a collection of the aggrieved and disillusioned coming together to attempt effecting meaningful change. Instead it is the aggrieved and disillusioned coming together because they are too apathetic, lazy and/or stupid to put the time, effort, resources, etc. into a project that would actually have some merit. This is why MMM is so cancerous, it's the easy protest outlet for those who can't actually do shit over and above getting a quick "I THINK I DID SOMETHING" high. For many causes the raw numbers game is a potential advantage, but with the MMM those numbers are composed of such an abundance of useless people that it really is worthwhile giving the whole mess a wide berth. Exhibit A:
Let's take your town hall idea, a good idea, and explore it a bit. Why would any person, assuming they gave a shit about politics, not be involved in that type of event? Being effective at town hall meetings (and its equivalents in other countries) involves a sustained effort in doing research, in forming argumentation (particularly memetic talking points), in practicing verbal delivery of information, etc. That takes effort, lots and lots and lots of mostly thankless effort (I speak from experience). Do you really, seriously, think that the average MMM participant has the capacity/perseverance to do this shit??? The people who have such capacity/perseverance are likely already involved in actual worthwhile endeavours, which is the supreme irony to all of this.
I know I am being a complete cunt here, but a bit of blunt truth is exactly what the average idealistic MMM participant needs. Do people really believe that all it takes is a good idea introduced to a mass of people to achieve shit? If so they need to be grounded, and grounded hard. Far too few people are actually prepared to the groundwork necessary to get an idea (whether good or bad) off the ground. 'Ideas men', or whatever you want to call them, are all too commonplace, and can usually be spotted when they issue platitudes like this one "There are people out there willing to do things and I bet they are more than willing to listen and try new ideas". The utterance itself was not worth the breath that was wasted on it. If you have a worthwhile idea then fucking enact it, and the idea really is good then it will catch on – but without that initial legwork and effort the endeavour is doomed to failure.
Truthfully, the MMM is mirage that lets people deceive themselves into thinking they are 'doing something' without having to expend the energy on actually 'doing something'.
This one is unfair, but I think saying will help drive the point home.
The MMM is a warm-fuzzy idea that makes people feel good. The feeling that you are taking a stand against corruption, against abuses of power, etc. is very intoxicating. This particular framing raises a question – are people signing up to MMM to feel good or to actually do shit of value? I believe I know the answer to that, but wait and see if apathy illustrates the point more clearly in the coming days.
Here is the unfair part. LeakWire was a warm-fuzzy idea that made people feel good. The feeling that you are taking a stand against corruption, against abuses of power, etc. is very intoxicating. This particular framing raises a question – did people sign up to LeakWire to feel good or to actually do shit of value (i.e. actually do some research and write some articles)?
You're little different than the average MMM participant. Think about it. Do some soul searching. Until you and the average MMM participant can do this the whole sorry mess is a giant waste of human endeavour.
You guys are so set on the MMM as an event. No i didn't participate in the hooting and banging around. I went to an event observed, asked a few questions, took pictures and carried on with my day. If you read what i posted earlier you would have comprehended what I said a bit more clearly. I am just suggesting that if you want to do something about the government then maybe OP should network with these individuals and share a more democratic approach rather than holding a picket sign and not being heard. Never in anything I said did I give any praise to MMM you just assumed that. Instead you guys or guy decided to try to derail anything I said and twist my words accusing me of being a MMM protester. As far Leakwire goes I fully support it but I have nothing to give I am a lousy writer. If someone here thinks I havnt actually sat down and tried to write something they are wrong. It's not in my blood to be a journalist. Back to the MMM participants. How many of those people do you think showed up just because they wanted to do something? I would 90%, they didn't come up with the idea they just saw something they could involved with. People are are drawn to positivity not negativity. Maybe instead of taking people's ideas and using your intellect to tear it down try using your skills to take the pieces that and good and piggy back off of that brainstorm and build something up. It's not a bad idea.
Right there is where you have missed the crucial point. You seem to set to defend such without having realised that the MMM have had NO FUCKING IDEAS* outside of holding a giant mask-wearing jamboree.
* Except that idea to protest against the mainstream media, which is likely indicative of what heights the MMM can aspire to.
Paraphrasing something you wrote to illustrate another point needing emphasis: "As far as <insert cause here> goes I fully support it but I have nothing to give I am a lousy <insert skill here>. If someone here thinks I havnt actually sat down and tried to <insert skill here> they are wrong. It's not in my blood to be a <insert skill here>."
How can you seriously expect to people to accomplish any shit of value when it seems, on a relatively small and not too time-consuming a project, you cannot do such yourself? You can put your fingers in your hears and harp on about negativity and abuse of intellect and make up all sorts of excuses for your personal unwillingness to do shit until you're blue in the face – it won't change the uncomfortable truth that you (and the rest of the useless people in society) can only help contribute to shit by actually doing shit.
My twisting your words didn't make you unable to do shit for LeakWire.
My negativity didn't make you unable to do shit for LeakWire.
My <insert anything you've rambled concerning me here> didn't make you unable to do shit for LeakWire.
Until you (and the rest of the useless people in society) can identify the personal challenge you are having, and take steps towards addressing it, all that will result will be more pointless giant mask-wearing jamborees that do fuck all.
Asking a bunch of apathetic clueless faggots to network is hardly a magic formula – only question is will you recognise this and/or how long such recognition will take. Now go whine at me some more because I had the audacity to point out shit you didn't want to hear.
When you point your finger at people and insult them you may want to pay close attention to your hand. While you are pointing one finger at them. Three fingers are curved back presenting you what you are accusing of others three fold back at yourself.
Because my bluntless is just such a recipe for your personal inability to do shit? That sort of faux-victimhood is pretty detrimental – you might want to look into that.
cTp you r fgt
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