Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Anonymous, Oct 29, 2011.
No u, there is always a need to be a bitch.
First, the objects being thrown at the police.
Shoes, paint and other objects.
The actual incident. once things start you can clearly see objects, including smoke, going both ways.
Even as Scott lies on the ground something comes flying in from the protestors side.
3rd'ly: Chick reluctantly admits to Lawrence Odonnel the rocks and bottles we're being thrown.
I'm glad I could help you find the truth.
As for your attacks on me: We work hard and we are self-sufficient adults. We own our own home, lots of sacrifice involved. I used to have a drinking problem that fucked with my ability to my best, I quit drinking over 15 years ago. I am also a type-2 diabetic in otherwise good health. I brew my own coffee although I did buy a cup a few weeks ago at a school carnival.
Yeah, I know plenty about low/no income populations. I also know more than I care to about suicides, how many MMR's have you had to file?
*sigh* That's what she said.
Very interesting that the 3 video showing that the protestors were throwing objects at the police got moved out of the thread about the guy who got hurt during a stand off.
Yup, nothing to see here. Peaceful victims of police oppression.
If you find that important information is missing from a thread feel free to post it.
Or just be a victim, it's your call.
The one thing you don't address, Glenn Beck, is how that whole situation got started in the first place. Also, the second and third video you posted only emphasize the dispropotionate police response to a conveniently interpreted threat (sort of like scilons perceive their enemies, perhaps?). Randomly (and expectedly) thrown rocks and bottles aren't like arrows that magically and endlessly regenerate themselves in an Tolkien elf's quill, you know... And guess what? cops very well know it too. At least you're safe from being arrested for bullshitting.
I actually think its pretty funny.
Listen little lady, to return your cute patronizing tone and nasty "told you so" stuff whenever this basic issue of accountability in policing arises; unless your dad is/was a cop, and you have an irrational belief in every single cop being a good guy by default, I think you utterly and completely fail to grasp even the most basic principles behind what most positive-thinking people that call themselves Anonymous are trying to implement.
And if you have seen the video evidence, and seen the carefully thrown flash grenade aimed right into a group of people checking on a wounded member of the public - and you have the audacity to even try to justify what that cop did - then you should be ashamed of your stupid twisted brains and you need to get out more.
That cop is a psycho. Not all are. But he is, and he needs to GTFO.
Look at the video clip and then clarify to everyone that you don't have a problem with it.
Then you can show us all video of all these bottles and hellfire raining down on Oakland cops. You know, DOX or STFU.
And if you can't show the dox, 612, the next time one of those stupid plastic cops in Sea Org alley stands on your bare toes or whatever?
For the sake of your own dignity and general mental well-being, think very hard before coming here bawwwing and expecting any sympathy.
^ This is what really angered me from what I saw on the video as I was not there, in person, so I don't have RL dox. I have yet to see/hear of anyone (including 612 or "Glenn Beck") defending that action, either on wwp or any other site I've visited. I did read, however, that the entire evening's activities will be investigated. Isn't that what the process is supposed to be?
Anons (and people, in general) whine about "innocent until proven guilty" (which means proven guilty by a jury of the defendant's peers in a courtroom) when it involves themselves (lulzsec, anyone?) but then turn around and want to immediately "lynch" (metaphorically, I hope) a law enforcement officer and everyone wearing a badge based on some YT video analysis by armchair detectives.
The irony is mind-blowing.
Um yeah, no. I'm pretty sure no one's calling for lynchings or anything but an investigation that leads to a conviction. You know with the judicial system.
Hey, Alexandra, I am not your straw man. You no nothing about my past, what I know, what I don't know, where I've been. Lighten up.
Knock it off with the righteous indignation and melodramatized statements no one has made. Though you must admit, Sherlock, the Oakland PD is going to have to come up with a pretty creative story to explain this one.
HAHAHAHAHA. Omg that made me laugh irl. Glenn, this one's a little slow, you should be nicer to him.
Way to ignore my point. You think you'd be so well off without cops? Why don't you take a look at what happens without cops?
1) I haven't advocated shit. And if you really think I'm a troll you haven't made yourself as familiar with my history with Chanology as you claim you have.
2) Re, bold: You are aware you're posting on WWP, right?
I kind of like you, slobeck, but what's your point? My point about collateral damage was valid. It sucks, and it's not ideal, but no one can completely control any violent situation, and it was the protesters that made it violent. It'd be nice if police could aim tear gas with homing beacons, but that isn't the world we live in. Sometimes innocent people get hurt no matter how hard LEOs try to avoid it. That doesn't mean they're eeeeeevil or they're intentionally trying to fuck up your skull. By that logic if a bunch of armed gunmen took thirty people hostage and one person got a knock to the head when the SWAT team took them out the blame is the SWAT team's fault. Not, you know, the armed gunmen that took thirty people hostage.
What's the point? They could have crystal clear video of this Olsen guy stabbing someone in the face and you'd just rationalize it away as being someone trying to infiltrate OWS, or a bad camera angle, or the guy must have insulted Olsen's momma so he had it coming, etc etc etc. Because it doesn't fit your pretty mental image of it being a war between you and the Man, and all of his little pigs.
1) Show me the survey you took of what "most" Anons think.
2) I'm sorry, I didn't realize I didn't meet your definition of what is and isn't an Anon. I should have known you were the authority.
The fuck are you talking about?
Absofuckinglutely. And when the investigation doesn't match their preconceived notion, they'll dismiss it as a government conspiracy.
1. Word-clear "metaphorically"
2. Visit other sites in addition to wwp, including twitter and IRC
3. Learn about #OpUprise and BB's bounty for his dox because there are no nuts in this country who would conceive of doing something harmful or illegal should the officer's dox get published
I understand now. You think we are all the same person. Since I don't argue with deluded people I'll see you around. Stay sweet.
some drunk douchbag tweeting "FTC i say drag him behind a car" does not make for a serious call for a "lynching" and fuckwits tweeting from their iPhones are not, even metaphorically, anything resembling a lynch mob. Now, if Michael Moore or someone (im tired i cant think of any others atm) suggested some extra judicial solution, THAT would be a serious call and quite troubling.
Also, DOXing =/= lynching. Even metaphorically. Anyway using "lynching" metaphorically to describe anything less heinous than an actual lynching is like people comparing some grumpy high school principal they don't like to Hitler
I'm neutral on the doxing. I don't really care if the cop gets harassed. He shot an unarmed Iraq combat veteran point blank in the face with a tear gas canister. If there's proof he did it. He deserves the scorn of his neighbors and community. Because if history dictates he will not receive much consequences either legally or professionally.
BTW: im not trying to pick a fight with you. I'm sensitive to certain language and use of language. This happens to be one that bothers me. I don't think it's right to describe that day half your office got laid off as the "office holocaust" unless your company has 10 million employees and by laid-off i mean gassed to death with Zyklon B. Its really inappropriate metaphor. And publishing someone's home address and unlisted phone numbers isnt really the same as a mob dragging innocent black folks to their death tied to the back of trucks or hung from trees in fits of racial rage. Certain things are inherantly poor metaphors.
I'm not questioning your interpretation so much as your characterization. "Collateral damage" is a highly loaded phrase, especially in this case, since it implies that it was an acceptable outcome. And by characterizing that way m you come of, frankly, like a bit an asshole, which in and of its self isn't necessarily problematic unless you're trying to get people to agree with your way of seeing it. You probable could have said it was an "unintended but understandable consequence" which can still be viewed as unacceptable in the way that describing critically wounding an unarmed combat veteran in that way as an acceptable outcome of the police action cannot. It would have conveyed the same truth but would have allowed for people to more easily agree. I happen to think that there was probably some off-policy behavior with regard to the use of weaponry by the police, but we won't know until it's investigated, obviously.
I wasn't actually arguing with your points so much as trying to make a political observation about your abiltiy to win the argument since you were saying things that rang as very disrespectful to Scott and were perhaps lacking some tactical skills. You could have made the same point but saved all of the pissiness its engendered in several people.
The reason I said anyting was because after counting to >9000 Instead of wanting to cuss you out, I wondered if you were able to read what you were writing with someone elses eyes, as it were. And decided to just say something "nice" that might be helpful rather than just letting me blow off steam at someone.
LOL 612 and Glen..I've been anon since before Chanology and have missed two protests in four?years. So..hello. It is not unintended when the cop AIMS AT YOUR HEAD.
Police attack Occupy Denver protesters
At least 15 people were arrested in Denver after clashes erupted between protesters and authorities near the steps of Colorado Capitol. A group of about 2000 supporters of the Occupy Wall Street movement was met by the police using rubber bullets and pepper spray.
Are you deluded or just fucking stupid? There is no "preconceived notion". There is fucking VIDEO FOOTAGE.
You should have either your diaper or your meds changed.
The love from the police spreads, don't it?
Published on Saturday, October 29, 2011 by CommonDreams.org
Police Violence Against Veterans: A Long and Painful Legacy
by Matthis Chiroux
When I read the headlines earlier this week, I felt as though I were in a time warp. “Police Fracture Iraq Vet’s Skull Clearing Intersection of Protesters.” But the location was wrong: Oakland, Calif. I thought that happened in Hempstead, N.Y.
I was reading about Scott Olsen’s cracked skull at the hands of the Oakland police, but all I could picture was my friend Nick Morgan’s head, fractured by the Hempstead police, bleeding out on the sidewalk in front of Hofstra University. Three years ago, almost to the day, they nearly killed my friend, a veteran of Iraq...when they fractured his skull...clearing an intersection of protesters.
Police violence against peaceful demonstrators in the U.S. has a long and painful history. Police violence against veteran demonstrators is absolutely no exception.
One need only search the words, “Bonus March,” for a bloody history lesson in how America treats its veterans demanding a fair shake from the 1%. In 1932, under the command of Gen. Douglas MacArthur, U.S. Infantry and Cavalry deployed in the streets of Washington D.C. to violently dismantle a large encampment of WWI veterans demanding benefits promised them for their service and sacrifice. The attack left more than fifty veterans injured and killed an infant who died several weeks later from tear gas-related injuries. While perhaps the largest example in history of state violence against veterans, it certainly is not the last.
Now we are made furious by the injuries caused to Scott Olsen. Like the Bonus Marchers before him, he was a veteran occupying public space, demanding a promise be made good on: a fair shake from the country that sent him to combat. And like the Bonus Marchers before him, we’ve all relearned a valuable lesson. Being veterans protects nobody when the streets become a warzone.
But that lesson is not new to us. Not those veterans who’ve been protesting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan for the last decade. As I referenced earlier, veterans were injured by police before when American streets became a warzone Oct. 15, 2008. Outside the last Presidential Debate in Hempstead, N.Y., between Obama and McCain, protesters, including veterans, came out in droves to demand the “People’s Agenda” be heard by the candidates. Within that, the veterans had a very specific demand.
We were demanding two veterans in uniform be allowed into the debate to ask one question of each candidate. What happened when we approached police lines felt unreal at the time. The immediate of us were arrested, and then horses were used to disperse the rest. When protesters found themselves trapped between the advancing horses and a wall to their rear, they were trampled. Among them was Nick, a former Army sergeant, wearing his uniform, whose cheekbone was crushed by a horse on the sidewalk. Graphic Video of the incident still exists here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgOKgpWrT04
More shocking is that after his face was crushed, he was arrested. While unconscious, no-less, he was handcuffed and loaded on a bus to jail. Charges were later dismissed against all 15 demonstrators arrested that evening, but officers of the Nassau County Police Department have yet to be held accountable for their actions.
Nick still has a lawsuit pending against the County, but police lawyers have refused to negotiate as police officials have issued denials of wrongdoing and contradictory police narratives of the events that took place that evening. All of this makes the case that if you’re protesting in America, you are not safe from the police, even if you are in a liberal city, even if you believe they are part of the 99%, even if you are a veteran in uniform protesting the very same war you were sent to fight in. The police are not your friends.
We thought our uniforms made us safe. I wore an American flag bandanna around my wrist when we marched on the debate, and held another folded in my hands because I thought they were symbols the police would recognize and react peacefully to. I don’t wear my uniform anymore, and the flag no longer has any home on my body.
As I write this, Scott Olsen still rests on a gurney in a hospital in Oakland, Calif. And while he is not handcuffed to the gurney as Nick was handcuffed to his, he is no less a veteran survivor of police brutality, and joins the swelling ranks of those who made it home in one piece only to be broken by the system and have their movements dispersed.
But the movement may withstand the system this time. We were much smaller when Nick was attacked, and had nowhere near the publicity. For as shocking as the images of Nick being trampled were, the incident was blacked out by the Mainstream Media. The organizers, myself included, divided ourselves and fought over how we could have protested better, when we should have been rallying around Nick and demanding an end to police brutality. But we were driven into our separate corners, so many of us, and remain largely unreconciled to this day.
That was the third veteran-led direct action at an electoral event that year, the first two being held at the Democratic and Republican National Conventions. It was destined to be the last. Police violence functioned to fracture the organizing core.
May the Occupy Wall Street movement never forget that the only people to blame for Scott Olsen’s injuries are the police and the 1%. No matter what circumstances come to light, no matter if he was committing civil disobedience at the time or if there could have existed some better way the situation could have been negotiated. The police and the 1% bear sole responsibility, and it is for this reason that we must grow and continue to confront them.
If veterans like Scott Olsen, Nick Morgan and the Bonus Marchers can’t be safe from violence at the hands of the system, why should any American feel safe? Grow the 99% and create a country where people don’t have their skulls cracked for occupying public space.
Matthis Chiroux is a former Army sergeant, an Iraq War Resister and an Afghanistan veteran. In 2008, he refused deployment orders to Iraq in the U.S. Congress, calling the war illegal and immoral. Eventually, he obtained endorsement for his position from 13 Democratic House Members who penned a letter to then President George W. Bush expressing support for Iraq War Resisters. Matthis has organized extensively within the veterans peace movement since, organizing a variety of direct actions and campaigns in military communities around the country.
612 - I'm still waiting for you to post up a video showing bottles raining down on Oakland cops.
I think you must have a problem with basic English. I said "if you can't show the dox, 612, the next time one of those stupid plastic cops in Sea Org alley stands on your bare toes or whatever?
For the sake of your own dignity and general mental well-being, think very hard before coming here bawwwing and expecting any sympathy."
Do you really need me to explain that further? Retarded much?
It means; as of now if you get assaulted by a scilon security guard, I will laugh out loud if you come here for pity.
And I don't give a fuck how long you've been protesting the cult.
Is that clear enough for you?
Weird thread to troll.
It seems to me that it this was an outsized response to a protest.
That could have gone down the same way and boy would chanology today be different if that had happened.
Outsized response to a none threat. Happens all the time. Cops puts on riot gear, is given riot instructions, riot tools and goes to a protest and interprets it as a riot since he's all amped up.
Luckily for the OWS peeps and unluckily for the marine, he got his head crushed. Allowing for an indefensible act to now have a natural vehicle for PR exposure.
I would agree with 612 this was an inevitable outcome. Not for the reasons she espouses. The cops figured you don't put on a condom unless you're gonna fuck and fuck they did. Unnecessarily, it's another symptom of what is wrong with this country, you as a libertarian should see this as an obvious infringement by the "man" of peoples civil liberties and the police should not immediately go to "RIOT FUCKEM UP MODE" and should probably have a better community outreach program so they understand what is going on. If there are only a few bad apples you don't need 300 riot and armed paramilitary troops to grab em.
Any ways carry on trolling the subject pretty sure the more you resist that this was an obvious outcome for a police state and that police state should be "fixed" the harder these protesters get.
Slobeck: I understand your point but I'm not going to phrase something differently just because someone might get upset on the internet.
It was collateral damage and it was acceptable. Ideal? No. Desired? No. But when there is a violent protest -- and I'm being quite nice by not calling it a riot, because it could easily be considered that -- and the options are respond to it and don't respond to it, not responding to it is not a valid choice. A cop can't go "You know, someone's breaking the law here and endangering civilians, but fuck it, I'm going home." And whether or not the protesters or this thread want to admit it, the proper and researched technique for breaking up a violent protest includes tear gas, which is fired from a canister, which is generally launched into the crowd because gee, the teargas needs to reach the crowd. Does it really fucking suck for anyone who happens to be in the way at the time? YES. That's why you don't fucking hang out with violent protesters. Basic common sense. You don't walk into a bank in a mask if you don't want to get shot (not that OWS listened to that bit of logic either). You don't make a sudden grab for under your seat when you've been pulled over by the cops. And if a protest around you gets violent you go home or get the fuck out of the way. NOT using the tear gas was not an option and you (not you personally, you in general) are lying to yourself if you think it was. And when you use tear gas, people get burns on their hands from trying to pick up canisters and people get smacked in the face by them. Shit happens. Reason 1 of 1000 you shouldn't protest illegally.
Honey I'm pretty sure I understand the concept of posting on a forum as well as or better than you do. But feel free to bawwquit the conversation anyway.
Someone using the monicker "Glenn Beck" HAS to troll in a thread like this one.
BTW, what's the second "n" do, exactly?
May you be on the receiving end of some "love" from your police. Accidentally, of course.
It's his extra testicle. For extra Glenness.
Not going to happen. I'm not fucking retarded enough to break the law or hang around with people who are. But way to conveniently ignore any of the actual points I made.
Is this discussion important enough to you all to keep it civil and out of the Dome? Serious question.
Where is the potential for entertainment greater?
I think there is actually some nuance hiding deep in this discussion, but I don't know that anything so delicate may survive in this particular thread.
But you don't understand the concept of DOX OR STFU as you STILL haven't provided video evidence of bottles raining down on cops as you claimed was happening before Olson was shot point blank with a tear can canister and his rescuers deliberately targeted by a cop throwing flash grenades.
Any chance you can post a video now 612?
Honey the video of the protester flat out admitting they were throwing bottles before the cops retaliated has been posted a few dozen times already.
You might as well dome this, Mod. 612's gone all ScnTO on Anon.
HOW DARE 612 AND GLENN BECK HAVE UNPOPULAR OPINIONS BASED ON FACTS
STOP RUINING OUR CIRCLEJERK YOU NAZI DOUCHEBAGS
And you've gone all Marty.
And the 3rd of the Three Stooges checks in!
I'm starting to think that Beck and Shaw are 612's socks.
I'm all up in ya, ain't I, lovely?
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