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A humble proposal.

Discussion in 'Support Questions' started by Anonymous, Oct 21, 2010.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    As Skeptic1337 would say from his lofty perch: carrion.








    Huh! Admit it, that was a good one.
  2. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    So interesting.
  3. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    I miss the diverse contributions and humour of many posters who are now banned. Skep being the latest. I'd rather have some of them back than create a safe place for potential noobs.

    Why are individuals permabanned after some out of the blue thread is started that is meant to solicit diverse opinions about a loaded subject?
    Brainstorming is neither creative nor effective if posters could be banned for content.


    Meh. nvm. I'm exhausted and frustrated by this thread. And my opinions are flocons in the wind.
  4. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    It happened in this thread but after a long history of problems.
  5. Re: A humble proposal.

    personality problems? or real problems.
  6. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    Time to let this one go.
  7. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    Suggest limiting all threads to maximum length 3 pages (30 posts).

    Advantages:

    - Most topics are basically exhausted by then. A long thread is a digressive thread.

    - Would lead to less bickering. If someone has something worthwhile to say they can start a new thread. If they do start a new thread and it's retarded the rest of us can just ignore that thread.

    - No more "he said, she said, you said, they said"

    - Would lead to less repetition.

    - Would lead to less repetition.

    - Doesn't take up any moderator time (except to set up).

    - Isn't subjective.

    => p(Godwin) < 1
  8. Re: A humble proposal.

    “Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up.”
    Thomas Eddison
  9. grebe Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    I am sorry to see Skeptic banned. He can be a smug bastard, but occasionally he makes me laugh.

    But I defer to the mods who follow the conversations here more regularly than I do. I've seen enough trolling and disruption to know there's a limit, however subjectively determined. Conversations drifting too far over the limit for too long will sabotage the basic purpose of the web site, which is to coordinate protest efforts.

    I have a hard time understanding why persistently cynical people would frequent a web site filled with people they don't like. Makes me wonder about OSA doing some "op" for some reason. But I also have a hard time understanding how such an op would serve the interests of Scientology. I'd think winning trust and making friends would be more useful.
  10. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    So would I, but Scientology history shows that's never been one of their goals.

    Still, Occam's Razor says we shouldn't attribute to conspiracy what has a simpler explanation.

    In this case the 'simplere explanation' is that the Internet is 98% crap. Nothing new there. It's been 'always September online' for many years now.
  11. Anonymous Member

  12. Fuckeye Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    A humble proposal:

    Unban everyone.
  13. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    Re: A humble proposal.

    One thing I have to bring up is this:

    Chanology is not the same as the Chans and this site cannot and should not become 4chan 2.0.

    I say this because as somebody said before: Some people do not "get" the culture around (specifically) the Chans. The ones that do come into Chanology may not understand the lingo, inside jokes, etc. as well as somebody indoctrinated by 4Chan or other Chans. Newcomers may come in expecting fighting against Scientology...But leave wondering why they did when seeing what goes on here or dealing with users like Herro or the Troll of the Week. They may get confused or frustrated with the jokes and speculation.

    Granted, the fun and faggotry that goes on here is great LULZ... However, no rational argument can be made that this site should just up and abandon rules or that this should be the next /b/.

    On the other side of the token: Too many rules can inhibit growth and ideas. While ideas like "Lets LOIC the Scientology website!" deserve infractions and/or bans, speculation for sake of growth shouldn't. Ideas that are new or worth exploring should be tested and tried before they get ridiculed.

    The best way to help IMO is to make a new post Icon that may say "Idea" or "Speculation". That way, if a person wants to make a little mit of speculation, they can use the icon. If the mods see that it is just moonbattery: they can ask them to reconsider or whatever the mods decide.
  14. Miranda Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    A few ideas along these lines have come up. I like the general idea of marking speculative posts. It serves several purposes: lets the poster off the hook for speculation, allows everyone who uses the site to see the difference between speculative and nonspeculative posts, and allows people to skip the speculation if they're not interested. Also pretty much agree with the rest of your post.
  15. MrCorduroy Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    Indeed. WWP without proper moderation will quickly degrade into another 4chan. I find my way to the armpit of the internet from time to time for a laugh, but that is not why I come here. I come here for serious business.

    I don't agree with permanent bans for anything but: posts promoting illegal activity OR multiple sock accounts OR repeated and blatant spamming. I, for one, am willing to endure personal attacks (which mean nothing coming from a stranger across the internet) for the sake of freer speech on WWP.

    As for the last bit, I agree entirely. This is, however, a cultural issue. New ideas will be flamed, trolled, and generally shat upon at first. As Schopenhauer said, "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
  16. grebe Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    WTF is all this?
  17. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    They are, methinks, arguing that regulation will stagnate chanology.
  18. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    I don't think it's necessairly like any one of those. I think trying to look to specific historical examples is a mistake because every movement is unique. They may follow similar arcs, but in the end they're all special little flowers. What I think is that Chanology has become insular and stagnant. That happens a lot in these types of things. It's easier to sit back and do what worked before than to try and innovate. Ideas become entrenched because doing something new carries the risk of failure. The problem is that we (people in general) oftentimes have a harder time seeing when something that was effective no longer is effective. We also have a tendency to distort and romanticize the past, even over extremely short periods of time.

    One comparison I might draw is the relationship between the American Revolution and the TeaParty movement. A huge part of the Tea Party movement is this "collective remembering" of the American Revolution, why it happened, and what it meant. But the reality of that past (if there is any one true reality) is warped and distorted through the lens of the contemporary world. The ideals become unhinged from their historical groundings and reconfigured to suit the present day. So now we have Tea Partiers screaming no taxation without representation even though unlike the British Imperial Government, the current government was democratically elected by the population of this country.

    It's similar in some ways with Chanology and the Chans. Lots of people here weren't around when this all started and many who were around never really saw the chans as anything more than a mongrel horde to be manipulated (I'm looking at you Marblecake). And yet here we all are trying to carry on this legacy- or rather what we think is this legacy. But just like the Tea Partiers, we're collectively building "memories" and cultural knowledge of this past without the proper groundings. And what we're left with is this reality of the past that is more real than the past itself (and for all you postmodern faggots, yes I'm talking about hyperreality). Which might not be such a big deal except for the fact that we're sitting here trying to figure out how to recreate that past when it never really existed in the first place.

    So where do we go from here? Well that's the million dollar question isn't it? I don't have all the answers and anyone who claims to have all the answers is full of shit. Hell I might be full of shit too. After all, everything I'm saying is based upon my own observations and I'm every bit as caught up in this clusterfuck of fail as the rest of you miserable fucks. But I do think that we should try and let go of trying to be Anonymous and just be Chanology. I don't know what Chanology is, but that's the good thing- we get to make it. We don't have to be trapped by this absurd ideal. So fuck raids, fuck guy fawkes masks, fuck caek- fuck all of it. Keep what works, kill the rest. We should be thinking about, how can we best make the community we want, not how can we best be Anonymous or The Internet Haet Machine or any of that bullshit. And that means not being afraid to change shit. That means realizing that when we do try and change stuff, we're going to fuck some things up, but realizing that if we learn from those fuck ups instead of retreating into nostalgia, we can move forward.

    Or not. In the end it's a protest against Scientology, none of it really matters at all in the grand scheme of things.
  19. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    Couldn't agree more. Also, drama--online environments perpetuate insularity and generate a level of fantasy that tends toward paranoia. Minor disagreements and hurt feelings become operas. Lighten up, this is a website. It's what Chanology is working toward--and the process of working toward it--that's important.

  20. Re: A humble proposal.

    You would not have a voice here right now if it wasn't for that "degradation" Ironic post is ironic.

    You lack the understanding of chaos and the hive.
  21. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    Depending on how you look at chanology (the protest movement) it never really had its roots at 4chan to begin with. You are embarrassing yourself.
  22. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    There is no chaos and there is no hive. Those are tongue in cheek jokes that you have taken seriously. You. Have. Been. Trolled. Stop trying to fit in and just be yourself for fuck's sake.
  23. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    Don't you think that's a bit disingenuous? I know I got involved because I saw something on 4chan.

    This is quite fucking true. ISDM, you really have no idea what you are talking about.
  24. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.


    1. someone receives infamous tom cruise dvd.
    2. someone edits the video into something crazier than the original footage.
    3. video posted online.
    4. video - as per Scientology MO - taken down.
    5. some people fan the flames on the chans.
    6. chans are led into doing the usual : ddos destroy attack campaign.
    7. scientology sites down, tom cruise video and the attack go viral
    8. hipsters and curious people flood the scene
    9. hipsters and curious people are encouraged to go and organize protests
    10. most channers as usual loose interest
    11. hipsters and curious people all pose as channers trying to be all cool in this edgy new hackers against scientology campaign.
    12. hipsters moved onto the new thing of the moment twenty times over, protests decreased in size.
    13. what is left is those dedicated to exposing scientology abuses - and those seeing the monthly protests as a social gathering.
    There, you got it. Now we are two years later, and still clenching onto that what never was.
  25. Re: A humble proposal.

    Do please explain.
  26. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    I can not dumb it down more than that

    1. someone receives infamous tom cruise dvd.
    2. someone edits the video into something crazier than the original footage.
    3. video posted online.
    4. video - as per Scientology MO - taken down.
    5. some people fan the flames on the chans.
    6. chans are led into doing the usual : ddos destroy attack campaign.
    7. scientology sites down, tom cruise video and the attack go viral
    8. hipsters and curious people flood the scene
    9. hipsters and curious people are encouraged to go and organize protests
    10. most channers as usual loose interest
    11. hipsters and curious people all pose as channers trying to be all cool in this edgy new hackers against scientology campaign.
    12. hipsters moved onto the new thing of the moment twenty times over, protests decreased in size.
    13. what is left is those dedicated to exposing scientology abuses - and those seeing the monthly protests as a social gathering.
  27. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    Yes. I won't be responding any more to the clueless kid who can't spell subpoena or miscavige. Welcome to my very exclusive ignore list, population: 1.
  28. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    ^^This is a good idea. I realise that due to the nature of bans on here it's not possible to do a blanket unbanning but WWP could offer an amnesty to anyone who has been banned if they make contact through IRC or another avenue. It could inject a bit of life back into Chanology because even though it's not a centralised movement, a ban from here can often result in someone giving up altogether.

    It means the admins would have to put up with people returning that they may well loathe and I know that's not an easy thing to do. Yes, they could come back with socks (some probably do) but that can place restrictions on what they can say, such as making reference back to a project they helped on. Yes, some are just egofags and too attached to a nickname but there's no way around that really.

    If a red name's still reading this far, the other side of the amnesty which would need to be made clear is the unbanned would come back quietly and without any demands to site staff. Any triumphalism and they'd be banned again straight away. No sniping at site staff about ancient issues.

    One other thing. Domelocking works to a certain extent but what about just keeping the Dome as a dumping ground for shit posts and nudes and creating another forum where people can be locked instead? It would give them a chance to hone their posting skills (if they were put there for lousy posting and not bothering to learn the nuances of being on the rest of the forums). At the moment when someone is Domed they're pretty much fucked because there's no chance for them to show an improvement.
  29. Re: A humble proposal.

    So you agree that the chain of events is what leads us to here today. That is all i was saying. Tha'ts reality.

    When the first protest happened, the chans were the organizers as you pointed out. It is speculation as too how many were "hipsters" or current/old chan members but you'd assume there was people associated with the chans at least.

    Also there was a massive convergence around this period with people who had been hurt by the cult and were finally being listened too. This doubled the numbers almost over night. Mark Bunker's message to anon was a pivotal point.

    It can be argued to why the protests dwindled and such as yours has been presented. I stopped at the biggest (number 2) because it was a bunch of paranoid children making fools of themselves and some emo 15 yo asking why i was taking pictures. A lot of channers went off at this moment because it made the meme of anonymous look gay. The internet hate machine was just a bunch of skinny teenagers who looked like they hadn't seen the light of day for 5 years. WTF.

    The objective of anon in those days were true to its name. You remained anon or you were not a part of the group.

    Chanology was a mixture of exes, channers, hipsters and whoever else wanted to join the party because there was caek to go around for everyone. It was total chaos and sometimes seemed impossible to reconcile. People persisted. People compromised. The channers, knowing they needed the help of the exes, toned down the memes somewhat. The exes compromised and accepted that attacking the church could be done with fun. New memes were created.

    We don't all know or really care how the forum administrators fit into this picture, we had a target and most people were happy to stay on it. At some point in time Chanology went down and needing a new space in which to coordinate WWP sprung up. No one to my memory questioned. Everyone was happy with the principals at hand and joined. People who wanted to for whatever the reason, to be a part of a collective to attack the CO$. This is what became the hive. There are currently over 700 people browsing these forums at this very instance. They speak with their involvement. Over 90% of them are not interested in this thread for a reason.

    They speak with their silence. Who will listen to them?
  30. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    I agree with most of this. I think when people are permanently banned you might end up losing their friends too.

    An idea I had is for there to be less permabanning but impose consequences for all infractions instead of the point system used now. Have permanent bans just for a few very serious things...doxs, criminal acts, spam.

    Then have a couple of other categories. For example a yellow card gets you a week in the dome no exceptions. A red card type infraction gets you a one week ban no exceptions. Another infraction while domed gets you one week ban. Maybe increase the times on repeat offenses.

    When people come back from being domed/banned they might be more careful if they know that one slip-up will immediately result in another timeout. They will gradually change their behaviour or else just lose interest.
  31. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    You do realize that OSA ops will always be active in all Sci critical forums?

    And that the mods by design have a better take on who's who than the rest of us?
  32. Anonymous Member

  33. Re: A humble proposal.

    All i am seeing is good people who give much of their time being banned and pro sci trolls remaining...

    Is it possible to present the hypothesis that it may be the scitrolls who are using the current rules in order to achieve that aim and as such the mods are being trolled? The hypothesis is that they have learnt what pushes mod buttons and using tonescale tech in order to influence their decisions. I know it's not nice thinking you have been trolled but is that a possibility?

    The only other way of explaining this that i can think of is the mods are trolling to show how stupid tinfoil is.

    That has certainly happened in the past but it could also be a little from column A and a little from column B.

    In any case protection from scitrolls i hope is high on Miranda's list.
  34. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    point the "pro sci trolls" out. RIGHT THE FUCK NOW.
    because mods are supposed to intuitively tell the difference between angry sci trolls and angry anon trolls? Food for thought: don't be a dick, allows mods to tell the difference between dicks and those trying to plan things.
  35. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    LOL. The OG that posted the Tom Cruise video had no idea there would be a DDoS. The other points followed naturally from the idea to take on thte CoS - the "consensus of hitting the streets" was apparent from replies to the very first 4chan thread.
  36. Re: A humble proposal.

    Yes, i know all that. I was there, remember?
  37. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    got three reports from around the world that prove so?
  38. Re: A humble proposal.

    I was on the committee that advised the reports. They don't know who i am and i don't know who they are. I know them to be good people and would not be involved with the faggotry here.
  39. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    got three reports from around the world that prove so?
  40. Re: A humble proposal.

    I believe there were 9999 reports from memory. I may be worng. All documents were destroyed but from memory one said. "sage motherfucker. do you understand it". The script code was half hidden in this video (to get it, sway your head to the timing of the music):

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhUkGIsKvn0[/ame]

    and this other half in this

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