Discussion in 'Other Countries' started by LaAnonarama, Apr 19, 2008.

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  1. LaAnonarama Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

  2. Anorumi Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

  3. Asian-anon Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    Simplified and Traditional Characters are equally bad - for general literacy.

    Do like Vietnam and go from a character system to full alphabetization!

    Pinyin, ftw, faggots
  4. Anorumi Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    If you understand anything about Chinese you'll understand why Chinese cannot, ignorant faggot.
  5. anonyvamp Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    That comment made no sense.

    Anyways, first post here, and I know Taiwan has a couple Scientology centers, and that they are fairly well know. I heard they donated money for some tsunami/earthquake reliefs before but I'm not sure how much members they have.

    My news are a bit expired because I have not visited Taiwan in a long time.

    I think Taipei has a Scientology center but Taipei's huge and I don't know where. I only heard about.

    Taiwan has no anonymous.
  6. anonyvamp Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    That comment made no sense.

    Anyways, first post here, and I know Taiwan has a couple Scientology centers, and that they are fairly well know. I heard they donated money for some tsunami/earthquake reliefs before but I'm not sure how much members they have.

    My news are a bit expired because I have not visited Taiwan in a long time.

    I think Taipei has a Scientology center but Taipei's huge and I don't know where. I only heard about.

    Taiwan has no anonymous.
  7. Anorumi Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    Which comment? If it's mine, I submit that you have no reading comprehension.

    Chinese has far too many homophones to change into an alphabetized language. All you need to do is open a dictionary to figure out why. There can literally be more than fifty different kanji with the same tone and same pronunciation, all with different meanings. Turn that into an alphabet and try to figure out what people are saying from that alone. If you thought memorizing kanji was hard, wait until you try to read a sentence that can mean thirteen different things. That's why Chinese cannot be alphabetized. It was the same problem Japan ran into. That's why they too, have kept kanji in their system.

    To change Chinese into something that is "literate-friendly" means to change the entire basis of the language, structure, and culture. Only an idiot would think that a language could be changed so easily.

    /linguistics soapbox
  8. anonyvamp Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    Um...I think you got me confused with the person above my accidental double post.

    And BTW I agree that Chinese cannot be alphabetized, but for the sake of convenience, pinyin is very useful for typing on the computer. I know there are Zhu Yin Fu Hao keyboards out there, but those are a pain to learn and they'd still give the same results as typing in pinyin.
  9. Anorumi Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    Well, that's why I asked, albeit, in a very trollish way.

    The person was suggesting that Chinese rid itself of kanji entirely and only deal with pinyin, which is stupid. It's completely different from typing with it. I prefer pinyin myself when typing.
  10. anonyvamp Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    That's not smart. It's already bad enough that simplified words are losing the original meanings, but having everything in pinyin would be insane.

    Are you familiar with the 施氏食獅史 poem? Can you imagine what would happen if it got changed into pinyin?
  11. Asian-anon Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    Taiwan doesn't have any Anon members, but I'm going to make a stop by in June. I'll check up the org and report back. From what I have heard, it appears that the Taiwan org doesn't have an extensive presence in Taiwan (the comment earlier about money worship is partially true), but it does have cash. I'll ask around when I'm in town.

    About a complete alphabetized system for Chinese:

    Yes, it is true that written Chinese characters does have a lot of homophones BUT only if you treat each character as a word - they almost never are treated syntactically in a stand alone manner. If you write pinyin with a system of delineating words by spaces, I don't see why it wouldn't work.

    I'd recommend The Chinese Language: Fact and Fantasy by John DeFrancis. If you want to discuss the merits of Chinese writing systems, read the book or at least the sample chapter here: Ideographic Myth

    Otherwise, GTFO

    Regarding my statement about Simplified and Traditional being equally bad for literacy, I was trying to make the point that both systems are way to complex and SIMPLIFICATION doesn't buy you much in reduced difficulty.

    Michael Kaplan of Microsoft recently examined the stroke data from standards bodies in China for all 70,195 “ideographs” [sic] in Unicode 5.0 and compared it against “the 54,195 ideographs for which stroke count data was provided by Taiwan standards bodies” to see how how much of a difference there was in the stroke counts for the characters that both sides provided data for.

    (I’m a bit surprised the two sides have compiled such extensive lists, and I’d love to see them. But that’s another matter.)

    He found that 9,768 of these characters (18 percent) have different stroke counts between the two standards, with 9,045 characters differing by 1 stroke, 675 characters by 2 strokes, 44 characters by 3 strokes, 2 characters by 4 strokes, 1 character by 5 strokes, and 1 character by 6 strokes.

    Doesn't buy you much simplification at ALL. FAIL
  12. Asian-anon Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    Yes, anonyvamp, I am very familiar with that poem. Now I have a question for you: Do you know anyone who speaks like that?

    Dox Pl0x
  13. Anorumi Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    If there's a protest in August, I'll be in Taiwan, and I'd be tempted for a little enburbulation just for shits and giggles.

    And for what you say, Chinese was my first language. I know very well that the "phrases" make the meanings. I still think that there are too many similar sounding things that can only be differentiated by the use of kanji. I still remember a funny incident that happened when I was a kid. My mother had been telling us where my uncle came from. She said:

    We thought:

    Imagine our horror when we'd momentarily thought our uncle was a mass murderer! :fuckyou:

    That said, language isn't about efficiency. Oftentimes it's an expression of culture, thought, and a living historical record. I believe Chinese characters are more than just symbols used for communication. It's an art. I never wish to see it changed.

    You should meet my students, who have a harder time learning how to spell English (which is in my opinion just as big a hindrance to literacy as it is in Chinese) than memorizing kanji. They were shocked when I told them that kids often had spelling tests because spelling in English doesn't make any fucking sense.

    For the record, I no more want a spelling reform than I want to see Chinese reduced to some hideous alphabet.
  14. Asian-anon Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    I'm considering doing a raid "balls of steel" style in June. I'll let you know what's the deal over there when I do. Should be fun. :guyfawkes:, packed. :twisted:

    About characters, I agree there is a lot of cultural heritage embedded in the script and I would hate to see them go a la a Cultural Revolution.

    I think phonetic computer input systems are what's going to test the resiliency of character scripts in this century. When we type in English, it doesn't decrease our ability to write because the letters that we input correspond exactly with the letters that we see in the output. With phonetic input systems in Chinese this is not the case for reasons both you and I understand very well. I believe this is the cause of many people forgetting to how to write certain characters. Maybe one day ppl might just say "Fuck it" and stop or start using a mix. Specialists in Chinese will still have to learn all the characters for their research tough.

    Also, I would point out again that this alphabetization transformation was done successfully in Vietnam, which had a character-based system modeled after Chinese script up until the early 20th century.

    Chinese writing is such a high maintenance script. :sad: English is just messed up because the language borrows so much from foreign languages like French and German that the letter-to-sound conversion is not 1:1 but like 1:mad:#$%. I think one of the Scandinavian languages (Swedish?) has the most harmonic alphabetization system. Will check.
  15. anonyvamp Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

  16. Asian-anon Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    True and the point is noted. But for Mao's sake, what a godawful poem! It has no aesthetic or recitational value (well, you can try, but I doubt you'll find an audience begging to hear your interpretive recitation of this classic gem). If pinyin means this poem wouldn't exist, I say, "good riddence!"

    I'm going mostly to see the 2008 Computex (6/3-7, only the 2nd largest IT trade show in the world, complete with dancing girls and bleeding edge electronics. sizzle.) and have some fun on the side. It would be too intense to just go there to protest.

    Does anyone know what $cientology is in Chinese? Also, I need to practice my talking points or I'll be a total failfag come June.
  17. anonyvamp Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    Well it had to be pretty interesting to some people to last this long.

    It's known as 山達基教, it's also know as 科學something教.

    I don't remember what goes in the middle -.-
  18. candlejack Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    lol, apparently chinese characters=kanji now
    weaboo faggots GTFO!
  19. Anorumi Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    I find typing "kanji" is faster than typing "chinese characters". Since the characters for "kanji" and "hanzi" are the same, I have no problems intermixing them. That and I'm slightly more used to typing the Japanese for it now.

    Unlike other weaboos, I actually live here. *resists inserting cute smiley faggotry*
  20. LaAnonarama Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    So... a weeaboo living the dream of all weeaboos then? Hanzi is Hanzi, Kanji is Kanji.
  21. Anorumi Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    Dunno how the weaboos would feel about living where I'm living right now. It's about six hours away from Tokyo and in the middle of nowhere.

    Kanji and Hanzi are the same. You can keep denying it, but it doesn't change reality.
  22. Asian-anon Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    With Arorumi here. I would also add Hanja, tetragraphs, and sino-glyphs.
  23. Asian-anon Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    Here's the link to the Taiwan-based $cilon site. It looks like crap (AIDS). Can't find a one that's targeted at mainlanders. Gotta luv those commies. :twisted:

    Taiwan $cilon site


    I was browsing the Ministry of the Interior site for Taiwan on $cientology. I scrolled down to the declaration of beliefs/creed section. Is it me or is it true they have a character for money (财) in front of every bullet point for each tenet? Anon's who can also read Chinese, please corroborate. Thx bai.

    Ministry of Interior page on Co$
  24. LaAnonarama Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    So, taking a peek at the latest Sharon Stone moment of lunacy, I noticed a familiar look of daftness in her eyes. Yep, former scilon. Had forgotten all about that connection. Richard Gere and his clique can also go to hell for all I care.
  25. ccas Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    There are no scn 山達基 in PRC (China). Even if allowed, I don't see how they compete with Fulong Gong. They have been recruiting Simplified Chinese translators in Taiwan, purpose unknown. They may slip in via Multi Level Marketing, in which you can find many scilons, believing that they have "LRH tech", with an edge over others.

    There was one mission or Dianetics center in Hong Kong, fate unknown, rumored to have been bolted up. It doesn't seem to be possible in Singapore as there is only one street where brothels are allowed and strictly controlled.

    There are over ten scn centers all over ROC (Taiwan). I don't know if they are orgs of some class or just missions. There are similar numbers of workshops or consultant companies who do Dianetics and auditing, with the word Scientology well hidden.

    Regarding the comment that Taiwanese are all about money. This is true as with many other places, but those who missed the boat are particularly vulnerable, as seen from their blogs. The population of Christians are 3% (?) out of about 22 million people, so they are not expected to be as scn resistance as Christian countries. Also, several much more sophisticated forms of Chinese astrology are big, so it's easy for people to believe in the supernatural, and also OCA. Not too many young people identify themselves as Buddhists and Taoists, but eastern religions are deeply intertwined in the culture. With the claim that scn is compatible with all religions, I bet it's easier to accept scn courses than covert to Christianity.

    The head (chairman?) of both the Scn Capitol Center and Hubbard School of Management is 吳英辰, the son of a Rockefeller like family. He ran the branch of a Taiwanese Branch in LA. If the bank didn't fail (merged/sold) a couple of years back, he would have been the CEO of a major bank in Taiwan! He once used his father's donated exhibition hall in the top university for an LRH exhibition. The other major player in the south, head of some centers, is a medical doctor.

    For celebrities there is about one 張瑞竹, a starlet comparable to Katherine Bell. I think she is pretty low level since I seem to know more scn than her. But after she went to Mexico to take advance services for cheap, she now offer courses of her own, saying honestly that she needs money now. She also started to go to elementary (primary) schools to talk human rights - the YFHR version. I bet they are pretty desperate.

    Sydney gets a lot of money by providing advanced serves not available in Taiwan. For cheaper services, they go to Mexico or South Africa (even OT). They recruit Sea Orgs in Taiwan and ship some to Sydney.

    There is only one Narconon 新生活教育中心. Up to last year, they go to many elementary schools to universities for their anti-drug talks. They still do this year, but could be a lot less due to complains (?). But they try to go after the teachers by offering anti-drug courses that seemed to be officially recognized as advanced training. There is only one Criminon for the prison (politically correctly called watched camps) in the same city, with local DA involved, producing around 50 graduates every few months. In the last class they started to take in non-addicts, perhaps showing that they are desperate to fill in the numbers.

    The Chinese terms are here for you to Google. All the govt departments and schools have email lists and maybe boards in case you want to harpoon. The Chinese Wikipedia also desperately needed to be expanded. The English versions have a unique style that is hell to translate and the authors are trying to cramp everything into an article. The admins are picky about the quality of writing. Perfect copy editing after machine translation isn't good enough, because it just doesn't read Chinese enough. You almost have to rewrite it completely.
  26. ccas Member

    Re: 中文中文中文~

    In honor of sea arrrgh 2, across the South China Sea (?) a high school library in Hong Kong was raid. The librarian is in the process of removing the scilon anti-drug links included by innocence. This is the before snap shot (in Chinese).

    The elusive Applied Scholastic International presence in China was located in Shenzhen, right at the border with Hong Kong. It is supposed to be an English tutoring school for children, but the teacher, Angel Mary, offers auditing service, even via telephone. Harpoons to the de facto city discussion board are suspended as the Mayor has just been fired because of corruption. Meanwhile enjoy the recent import car show at the board.[IMG]

    In Taiwan, all scilon locations were mapped in Google, and commented, also in the searchWiki. Thanks to the recent French coverage, official responses to complains regarding Narconon anti-drug lectures in schools have been good. There is also a well-talked-about low budget film festival type of movie, documenting the match making of a dozen couples. Now everybody know that the match maker is a scilon minister, the director and the couples are all scilons. The producer and director made open replies why it doesn't matter if they are scilons or not. Yeah, right.
  27. 怎么这里的评论比国内骂日本人的评论还侮辱人。。。
    And pinyin is a pain in the ass to read, because so many words have the same pinyin.
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